Who is Sasha?
Okay, QB is clearly having too much fun at someone's expense.
In any case, Kate might have some weird things going in terms of going from slightly reckless (breaking a bell tower) to completely crazy (going to try to fight the Tracksuits), but I don't think that should be the focus for a franchise/multiverse/reality that has clearly some questionable things happen.
Considering NWH has some serious Into the Spiderverse vibes AND the ticket sales are bonkers good, I'm pretty sure Covid variant won't keep people from wanting to see this movie.
I'm not sure the US will be doing that. Europe maybe, but not the US.
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We got 2G (Geimpft, genesen, i.e. vaccinated, recovered from COVID) rules in cinemas, with as of this week the added caveat that we still have to wear masks even when in our seats. I'll still be watching Spider-Man: No Way Home and Matrix 4, but I'm already not watching two other movies due to that. As someone with glasses, wearing a mask during a movie ain't that much fun.
Cases in Germany are exploding and we are reaching the stage where hospitals will have to do triage, so it's even possible that cinemas will be completely shut down when Spider-Man hits on December 16th.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Considering NWH has some serious Into the Spiderverse vibes AND the ticket sales are bonkers good, I'm pretty sure Covid variant won't keep people from wanting to see this movie.
None of that would keep people from WANTING to see this movie. I WANT to see the movie. But you're wrong that it won't keep people from SEEING the movie in the theater. I know this for a fact, since it's keeping me from seeing the movie in the theater (or any movie for that matter) until there's a theater option where all attendees have to be vaccinated, not only those 12 and up, and not showing a negative covid test 72 hours prior.
The more relevant question is how many people will not see the movie in the theater because of this? I'm guessing I'm in the minority, but also keep in mind that best movie during Covid is not really a brag that most care about. Disney would much rather see the $1.1B worldwide sales that Far From Home did than being able to say it's the #1 movie of 2021 at $380M-$500M (note, both Dune and Eternals came in the $370Ms).
Joel,
I do think you're in the minority, but I also think worldwide, it will do great as well as domestically. Also not surprised that Eternals didn't do as well as Shang-Chi did.
QB,
Yeah I saw that too. My take, right now at least, people aren't sure if they are ready to sign on for this just yet. Maybe once it finishes its run, people might give it a re-watch. But for now, it's certainly nowhere near Wandavision or Loki numbers. (But maybe that's just the way Hawkeye rolls.)
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I’ve long wondered how Clint and his wife met. After this most recent episode, I’m thinking she might once have been a SHIELD agent.
Also….
I’m wondering if Jack might be the boss of the Track Suit Mafia, and he maybe works under Kingpin.
I’m curious who the watch belongs to. From what I thought I heard Clint saying, if the TSM gets hold of it someone’s cover could be blown. I’m hoping that leads to some larger MCU issue, so the show doesn’t just end up being a succession story.
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I’ve long wondered how Clint and his wife met. After this most recent episode, I’m thinking she might once have been a SHIELD agent.
Perhaps her code name was Mockingbird
That would be the final nail in the coffin of the canonicity of Agents of SHIELD since it featured Mockingbird as portrayed by Adrianne Palicki
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I'm pretty sure she's a generic agent, not Mockingbird. Plus I want Adrianne Palicki to reprise the role. (I mean if we can get Cox and most of the Netflix guys, why not her??)
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Alternatively, "Mockingbird" could be a legacy agent name, and Laura Barton was the first Mockingbird and then Bobbi now carries the name. And regardless, Laura Barton is not Bobbi Morse, so it doesn't erase Bobbi's existence, strong fan opinions of canonicity notwithstanding.
But regardless of her identity, I definitely agree Laura was a SHIELD agent. It would make sense Fury set the place aside for both of them.
What I'm curious about is who the watch belonged to. Clint mentions it was a "friend" who was no longer working, and the watch will blow their cover. Is this person...
- Laura, and Clint is understanding his connection to the owner of the watch so no one catches on it's his wife
- Sharon Carter, as she is an ex SHIELD agent, and she could possibly be working in deep cover as the Power Broker (per the end of Falcon and the Winter Soldier, where she is either turned evil and is the Power Broker or in deep cover)?
- Nick Fury, because officially the world believes he is dead, and this could reveal he is not?
- Phil Coulson, ditto?
- Maria Hill? (But would she be considered no longer working for SHIELD?)
- Bobbi Morse? I think it's highly unlikely they WILL tie in Agents of SHIELD directly, but she was last seen having to go into deep cover/considered rogue, and the name is someone comic-bookily connected to Clint.
- Someone we haven't met yet, but we somehow have to learn who it is within the last two episodes of this series amid all the other plotlines that have to be tied up?
- Someone we have met before but I am failing to think of?
I also have a very whacky fan theory related to Kate's mom that ties in Agent Carter, because no, I will never stop being obsessed with that show. People disliking Agent Carter, me coming up with whacky theories, or who just don't want to read nonsense should not click:
So: I watched some YouTube videos (ScreenCrush and NewRockstars, both have some good insights alongside some ridiculous speculation) that pointed out some details in Kate's aunt's apartment, where she and Clint are hiding out. As the name on her door (or it might have been her mailbox) shows, her name is "M. Brandon." There are posters all over M. Brandon's apartment that are for B-movies starring Moira Brandon. (Moira Brandon was also apparently in the comics and was an old lady who befriended Hawkeye and Mockingbird).
Now, this woman, with the name Brandon, is more likely to be Kate's mom's sister, not Kate's dad's sister, presuming it is not a stage name.
In the Hawkeye comics, Kate and Clint, especially Kate frequently have as an enemy Whitney Frost, aka Madame Masque. There's a plot vaguely I recall where Madame Masque makes Kate believe her mother is alive (in the comics it's her mother's who is dead and her dad is alive) but it turns out to be Madame Masque. Many people are wondering if Eleanor is going to be a take on Madame Masque in the show.
What does this have to do with Agent Carter?
One of Agent Carter's enemies (in Season 2) was Whitney Frost. She never becomes known as Madame Masque in the show, but she is a Hedy Lamarr type character--brilliant scientist who is better known as a famous actress. In the show she gets imbued with Darkforce powers and has a "crack" on her face where Darkforce is seeping through, which she covers with various veils. At the end of the show they use Science! to remove her powers, and Frost ends up in an insane asylum, where they show she has marred her face, trying to tear it open to get more Darkforce to come out. As the showrunners had thought they were going to get greenlit for Season 3, they were probably setting up for her to return as Madame Masque later, where she'd be more of the evil supervillain scientist she is in the comics.
So, what if she survived and eventually had kids? And some of her kids/grandkids were inspired by her film career to also have a film career of her own? While others may have been more inspired by her Evil Science to become an Evil Scientist?
So therefore obviously, by the laws of transitive comic book properties, Eleanor and Moira are sisters and therefore as Moira is the movie star, Eleanor must be the new Madame Masque, successor to her mother (maybe grandmother) Whitney Frost?
Or am I just making things up? Probably this. But it's fun to go wild sometimes.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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DQ, all good theories (including the ties to Agent Carter). Two additional thoughts on my part:
1) if it's Bobbi Morse's watch, it could just as easily be Hunter's from Agents of Shield (though since he's way more obscure, highly unlikely) as he has the same facts that fit.
2) The watch they show, when we finally get a good look at it seems like a men's style watch, which suggests it's likely belonging to a male. Sure, anyone can wear any style, regardless of gender, but when building a mystery, the clues shown tend to not be completely misleading, so I think it's more likely a man's watch, which eliminates multiple theories. (I could be completely off on it actually being a men's watch, since I make no claims of being knowledgeable about high fashion jewelry.)
Regardless of who's watch it is, it would be really cool if it's from an existing character if there's actually a scene in one of the movies where you can see them wearing it. If it's a new character for MCU, I'm wondering if it's somehow a lead in to Secret Invasion, which we already know features Nick Fury and Maria Hill, and lots of espionage and deep cover type plot lines.
DQ,
I like that idea that Mockingbird is a legacy code name in the same vein as James Bond or even Hawkeye themselves. Also, yes combining Agent Carter with this show seems doable.
I think the watch might be hiding some else honestly but we'll see.
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While I'm fine with Mockingbird being a title like Black Widow or Hawkeye that multiple people could carry, I also really, really liked Adrienne Palicki's take on Bobbi Morse, and would love to see her back.
(Just not Hunter. Boring!)
Still, if Marvel chose to bring someone over from Agents of SHIELD, it would probably be Coulson, who has bored me to tears since his appearances in the Thor and Iron Man movies.
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JoelF, it does look more like a man's watch, but that might also be intentionally misleading. And yes, if it's not Bobbi's it could be Hunter's, but it seems more likely if either of them get mentioned at all, Bobbi is the far more recognizable name drop to fans. And as Set says, Hunter is a bit boring. Actually, I like Hunter alright, but his biggest problem in both the comics and AOS is that he is basically an expy for Clint (and got Clint's personality in the MCU) that they attached to Bobbi after she and Clint divorced in the comics. Actually having him show up would make the fact that he's basically Clint with the serial numbers filed off fairly obvious.
Another possibility for who the owner was is maybe Hank Pym? He used to work for SHIELD, he "got out a long time ago," and clearly Hank has provided Clint with some technology not too long ago.
Reading around I realized probably Eleanor put the hit out on Hawkeye, meaning the person she called was Val. That's why Yelena was so careful not to hurt Kate (including make sure Kate didn't kill her, because that would also "damage" Kate).
I have a completely unrelated-to-this-show (unless the watch is his) theory about Nick Fury:
Look, I know this is the cool thing to say about every character in the MCU but I think this actually makes sense: Nick Fury is a Skrull.
I mean, I know we saw a Nick Fury Skrull in Spider-Man 8, but that's not what I mean.
I mean: Nick Fury really died way back in Captain America: the Winter Soldier. The one who showed up at the end after a miraculous recovery is a Skrull, and he's been a Skrull ever since. He might even be Talos.
So if Fury is indeed a Skrull, he’d have to be someone other than Talos
Right now I'm just guessing the watch belongs to Moon Knight. ;p
Nicely done.
Ok hang on, Was the Big Guy's shadow always in the Ending sequence or was that just added for episode 5?
Fwaaar yes!
OMG loved loved loved Yelena in this. I was really skeptical about how well MCU was going to handle Yelena and she is awesome.
Some great character work all around. And okay, fine, Jeremy Renner can act. He had some great scenes.
My only concern is how the heck are they going to wrap everything up in one more episode? This said, I am looking forward to the costume reveal.
Yelena and Kate had some really great chemistry in those apartment scenes. Really hope we will get more of that in the future.
the fact that Yelena was Poofed by Thanos, adds a little something to Nat's willingness to sacrifice herself. Her and Clint talking about it is going to be ... not a lot of words but I think Yelena will get it.
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Yelena and Kate had some really great chemistry in those apartment scenes. Really hope we will get more of that in the future.
I definitely think they're creating future teammates there.
the fact that Yelena was Poofed by Thanos, adds a little something to Nat's willingness to sacrifice herself. Her and Clint talking about it is going to be ... not a lot of words but I think Yelena will get it.
I disagree (although I hope Yelena and Clint reconcile). I thought it made Natasha's sacrifice worse and would be harder for Yelena to understand: Natasha's reasoning to save Clint was because if they succeeded, he would get his family back whereas what she said to him is that she had no family. But she lost Yelena (and presumably Melina and Alexei as well, although she is probably less sentimental about them), so that means that categorically, she decided Clint's family was a higher priority than her own (unofficially adoptive) sister. I don't see how Clint can spin that to make Yelena feel better about Natasha's sacrifice: "Oh, she decided my family was more important than hers. Than you."
I don't blame this problem on the writers of Hawkeye, however, who have generally been nailing it on the head, but on the silly sensationalistic and subtly antifeminist BS found in the Endgame script (e.g., Clint is more valued as a "family man" than Natasha as a childless woman with a found family). Gag me. I do trust--and at least hope--that the writers of Hawkeye WILL find a way to make it make sense. The only reason Nat needed to make her sacrifice was because she loved Clint, and didn't want to have to kill him. She would have done the same thing if Yelena had been the one with her on Vormir, not because Yelena has people (Yelena has no one but Nat) but because she loves her and would want her to live. I would hope if there's an argument that will win Yelena over it would be something along those lines.
If for no other reason, this show has been worth it just to see Vincent D'Onofrio as Kingpin again.
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Agreed. His Kingpin is classic.
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If for no other reason, this show has been worth it just to see Vincent D'Onofrio as Kingpin again..
Agreed. His Kingpin is classic.
There is something about his voice that sounds like nails on a chalkboard or autotuning to me.
I was wondering how they could keep Echo's backstory at least similar to the comics when Ronin killed her father in the MCU. But boy, did they come up with a way that was Machiavellian and even more like the Kingpin than the story in the comics. Brilliant!
I mean honestly do you want a melodious Wilson Fisk, Norse?
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I was wondering how they could keep Echo's backstory at least similar to the comics when Ronin killed her father in the MCU. But boy, did they come up with a way that was Machiavellian and even more like the Kingpin than the story in the comics. Brilliant!
I like the notion that the Kingpin manipulated Clint into killing off other criminals (perhaps posing as a law-and-order type and playing into his damaged state after the death of his family) only to consolidate his own hold on the underworld.
And is doing the same to Maya, now.
Rule number one of fighting. Get other people to do it...
And now I have a list of other people I want to see from the Netflix shows, like the dude who played Bullseye or the lady who played Typhoid Mary or Jessica Henstridge (as well as obvious choices like Charlie Cox).
I mean honestly do you want a melodious Wilson Fisk, Norse?
It's the actor. His trying to hard to sound scary fisk isn't AS bad as criminal intent (which i think is his real voice?) But still drives me up the wall.
Set,
All I want is for Jessica Jones, Misty Knight, Luke Cage and Colleen Wing (the characters and the actors who played them in the Netflix show) to reprise them some how.
Wolf,
Okay. Well I guess we have different ideas of grating voices...
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Set,
All I want is for Jessica Jones, Misty Knight, Luke Cage and Colleen Wing (the characters and the actors who played them in the Netflix show) to reprise them some how.
Wolf,
Okay. Well I guess we have different ideas of grating voices...
These ears are not for show
(real life conversation in highschool)
Friends, 80 feet back whispering about me
"I can hear that you know!...
Softer "Damn, he does have ears like a wolf..."
" they're perfectly round thank you!!!"
Huh No. Found him in an interview. And it's whatever he does for his voice for kingpin and law and order CI that makes them want to go flat.
Word is Jessica will appear in the She-Hulk series. So between that, Daredevil and Kingpin I would say they intend to keep the Netflix Characters around. Maybe a little less dark but I think there are good odds on seeing more of them.
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Nice, and interesting to hear the spoiler-y bit. I kinda hoped he might make an appearance in the She-Hulk series, since it's she's all lawyer-y and stuff and they could do lawyer-ly... stuff.
As for Hawkeye, I feel like he just got overshadowed in his own series by Vincent D'Onofrio. :) And I wonder how on Earth they plan on wrapping all this up in 1 more episode, because there's so darn much I want to know more about, like whether Jack is, or becomes, the Swordsman, whether Kate's mom knows exactly how bad Kingpin is, or is just another person (like Clint and Maya) that he's taking for a ride, whether Maya's boyfriend is gonna die badly or ironically, etc.
Wow, sucks to be Maya. "My so-called boyfriend had to learn an entirely different language just to lie to me..."
any Bets on "so-called Boyfriend" being the informant who tipped off Ronin way back when
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I thought Kazi was a relative, not her boyfriend. Maybe I missed something. But if nothing else they don't seem to have romantic chemistry. ETA: reading various overviews and recaps in line, he's her second in command of the Tracksuit Mafia.
I would suggest starting a new one, I expect Tonya Wolridge and the other admins have other priorities.