Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
This is my first time building an alchemist, and I was hoping to get y'alls opinions on my build!
My goal is to play a support character who goes around handing out mutagens and elixirs to the rest of the party. In particular, I like the idea of giving a juggernaut mutagen and a bravo's brew to the party's champion and giving quicksilver mutagens and centipede poison to the rogue. I don't care about melee combat; I just want to be able to hand out tons of mutagens.
The campaign will be mostly about fighting fiends, and the gm has said that I can def get the uncommon bomb that does alignment damage. The campaign will also be nautical, which could make the new tattoos extra fun. It will be levels 1 to 20.
The other members of the party are:
a goblin rogue
a catfolk tiefling paladin champion with a two-handed greatsword
a mountain stance-focused monk.
Class: alchemist
ancestry: elf
background: barber
Heritage: ancient elf, rogue dedication, battle medicine feat.
research field: mutagenist
Starting ability scores: str 10, con 12, wis 12, dex 16, int 18, cha 10.
starting skills: acrobatics, arcana, athletics, crafting, diplomacy, intimidation medicine, occultism, society, thievery
Priority of skills: crafting, medicine, society
Feats:
lv 1: battle medicine, alchemical familiar, elven weapon familiarity
lv 2: tattoo artist, revivifying mutagen
1v 3: diehard
lv 4: magical crafting, calculated splash
lv 5: elven weapon elegance
lv 6:speciality crafting (alchemy), combine elixirs
lv 7: inventor
lv 8:stick bombs, ward medic
lv 9: tree climber
lv 10: paragon battle medicine, calculated splash
lv 11: advanced first aid
lv 12: extend elixir, trick magic item
lv 13: elven weapon expertise
lv 14: biographical eye, perpetual breadth (bomber)
lv 15: craft anything
lv 16, eternal elixir, rapid affixture
lv 17: magic rider
lv 18: legendary medic, improbable elixir
lv 19: legendary codebreaker
lv 20: craft philosophers stone, additional lore fiends.
What do you think? Any tips for improving it?
Your core objective seems to be covered simply by being a mutagenist. Anything on top of that is icing.
Seems solid to me too.
I'd probably avoid taking either extend elixir ( just works on you) and eternal elixir ( requires you to use an elixir with a level not higher than half your level).
Rfkannen wrote: What do you think? Any tips for improving it? In my opinion, the overall idea is good, but there are many problems in your build.
First, Mutagens are not really combat buffs. If your Rogue is a melee one, he will quickly ask you to switch from Quicksilver Mutagen to something less crippling, like Mistform Elixir for example. Also, Juggernaut Mutagen is only interesting the first 4 levels. After that, Elixirs of Life will give more hit points to your Champion without the drawbacks of Mutagens.
Also, Mutagenist Field is a lot about you. It doesn't improve Mutagens if you use them for others. So this choice seems a bad one.
Poison is a good idea, but without Potent Poisoner or Toxicologist Research Field they lose potency after level 10 due to ridiculous DCs.
As a side note, you should poison also your Paladin weapon (in PF2, Paladins can use poison without issue). Poison is a lot about cumulating many application on one single target.
You have a lot of bomb feats and at the same time all the elven weapon line. What do you plan to use as a weapon?
In my opinion, you should forget about the bow, as it will only catch up with Bombs during the very last levels. Unless you plan for long adventuring days and in that case I'd forget about the bomb feats.
About your bombs, Sticky Bomb is useless without Perpetual Bombs, and bombs are going down after level 12 so taking Perpetual Bombs at 14 is very weak.
If I were you:
I'd change my Research Field, either to Chirurgeon if I plan to be a full support Alchemist (as your party lacks a healer), to Toxicologist if I convince the Paladin player to use poisons, or to Bomber to bomb more.
I'd take Potent Poisoner.
I'd choose between bombs and bow and take the Archer Archetype if I choose bow.
If he were to swap on a toxilogist i'd go with the bow and poisoned arrows
-lvl 2: Archer archetype (bow proficiency and progression )
-lvl 6: Parting Shot ( 2 actions to make the enemy flat footed against your strike, and also a free step which might be enhanced due to elastic mutagen, since he'll be using the quicksilver one ).
-lvl 8: Pinpointed poisoner ( the poisoned strike on the flat footed enemy will give him a -2 circ on his saving throw )
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
I picked mutagenist mostly through the process of elimination. My concept was a mad elf doctor looking for immortality. Unfortunately, bomber doesn't fit the concept of playing a doctor. chiurgenist is weird in that it actively rewards not raising medicine. Also, since the main enemies we will be fighting are devils, I will not play a toxicologist (focusing on a damage type your main enemy is resistant to would not feel great). So I was left with mutagenist.
Chirurgeon was the best fit thematically, but on top of the fact that if I wanted to raise medicine, I would have to ignore my main class feature, I was also worried that our party wouldn't need a healer because we have a champion. I had heard that champions provide all the out of combat healing you could ever need.
The elven weapon feats were mainly for the rapier, as a mutagenist, I felt I needed a melee option, but as I was focused on dex, I needed to get a finesse weapon.
All the bomb feats were for a similar reason, I mostly want to be an elixir vendor, but I was worried about what I would be doing after the first round of combat when everyone had already taken my elixirs. So I assumed making enemies flatfooted with thunder bombs would be my best option.
I can definitely convince the paladin player to use poisons against enemies they will work on.
The paladin and my character are also supposed to know each other, my character is actually in the group to help him deal with a long running magical illness. Since our two characters are connected, I thought it would be fun to have our characters synergize mechanically and not overlap too much. I thought giving him mutagens would be the best way to do that.
Are any of my assumptions faulty? Would another build work better?
Well, for starters:
- Champion performs good out of combat to deliver healings, but a character with medicine is mostly required ( unless different characters which help with focus spells ).
For example, healing X hp per 10 min to a single target might result into 2 hours to heal the whole party. This would lead to the DM territory.
*Would the heroes be able to rest that long in enemy territory?
*Would the enemy wander around their place or just sit for the entirely time because reasons?
and so on.
Anyway, you'd probably be obliterated with just a champion ( unless a very kind DM ) and no other healings ( not even medicine ).
- Elixirs can be traded before the combat, and even after daily preps, so your issues would be not "after the first round of combat" but "since the first round of combat"
-Going melee with a dex mutagenist is going to kill you faster than you think ( though the champion might protect you a while ). I'd consider you to stay ranged and hit with a bow or bombs. Eventually, take a wizard or int spellcasting dedication and go with cantrips from the distance.
-Giving a champion a mutagen ( I hope a drakeheart elixir ) is certainly going to help, but that's it. Do not expect miracles.
From what you have described until now, i have the feel you are going to be an extra burden on a party already suffering the absence of a healer ( or hybrid, like a druid or primal sorcerer ).
My 2 cp:
1. I think you have spent too many feats and abilities on offensive options for the build you described - you've spent a feat getting rapier, you're spending 2+ class feats on your bombs, and maybe an archetype to get archery.
The alchemist cannot compete with martials in terms of combat versatility. I recommend making one of those your primary weapon, and downgrade one to a secondary (and spend fewer or no feats on it).
2. I don't know mutagenists very well, but the drawbacks of mutagens are extremely unpopular, and I would check to make sure your party would actually use them if you made them.
3. I would consider Nature and Religion for Recall checks. Animals, beasts, undead, and fiends are very common. Alternatively, if you're going to get Diplomacy and Intimidation, consider 12 CHA rather than 12 WIS.
4. I would also consider a Medic dedication. It's thematic, your party could benefit a lot, and it's just a good dedication overall.
Rfkannen wrote: Are any of my assumptions faulty? Would another build work better? The biggest mistake is that you can deliver Elixirs during combat. It's one action to deliver an Elixir to an adjacent ally. So you can heal during combat. With a Valet Familiar, you can be an honorable healer.
Adding Medicine feats and Medic Archetype would go a long way towards increasing your Healing output.
In my opinion, you should go Chirurgeon, as it's both quite useful to your party and it fits what you want to play. Ask your GM if you can use Crafting for all Medicine relating things (feat prerequisites, Treat Wounds options) so you will only have to raise Crafting and be as good as a full Medicine healer.
Be wary that Elixirs of Life starts to be good at level 5. So, in the beginning, you'll certainly have to throw a few bombs before becoming a proper healer.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Okay so second try, how does this character look?
Name: Hipoc
class: Alchemist
ancestry: elf
background: barber
Heritage: whisper elf
research field: chirugeon
Starting ability scores: str 10, con 12, wis 12, dex 16, int 18, cha 10.
Starting skills: acrobatics, arcana, crafting, medicine, nature, occultism, religion, society, stealth
Skills priority: Medicine, crafting, religion
lv 1: alchemical familiar
lv 2: battle medicine, medic dedication
lv 3: ward medic
lv 4: treat condition, doctor's visitation
lv 5: ageless patience
lv 6: magical crafting, combine elixirs
lv 7: godless healing
lv 8: perpetual breadth bomber, inventor
lv 9: expert longevity
lv 10: paragon battle medicine, merciful elixir
lv 11: consult the spirits
lv 12: trick magic item, if extend elixir isn't a good pick I have no idea what to take here. Maybe potent poisoner?
lv 13: universal longevity
lv 14: advanced first aid, greater merciful elixir
lv 15: legendary medic
lv 16: resuscitate, tattoo artist
lv 17: magic rider
lv 18: craft anything: miracle worker
lv 19: divine guidance
lv 20: craft philosophers stone, mortal healing.
What do you think? My main problem is I had no idea what order to take the skill feats.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Looks like I can't edit posts, but I meant the stats were str 10, con 10, wis 14, dex 16, int 18, cha 10.
also at level one I take ancestral longevity
I find Continual Recovery more useful than Ward Medic.
What do your daily preparations look like at level 1? 5? 10?
Make sure your familiar has the appropriate feats to do what you want it to do. The Extra Reagent is tempting but if its primary purpose is delivering stuff that needs feats too.
As someone above pointed out, chirugeons start off slow. The minor elixir of life kind of sucks.
I've never used Healing Bombs but that's worth looking into. Maybe you can pick it up late, with that extra 10th level feat or something.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Watery Soup wrote: I find Continual Recovery more useful than Ward Medic.
What do your daily preparations look like at level 1? 5? 10?
Make sure your familiar has the appropriate feats to do what you want it to do. The Extra Reagent is tempting but if its primary purpose is delivering stuff that needs feats too.
As someone above pointed out, chirugeons start off slow. The minor elixir of life kind of sucks.
I've never used Healing Bombs but that's worth looking into. Maybe you can pick it up late, with that extra 10th level feat or something.
Im not sure at higher levels, but at level 1 I was thinking of preparing 2 elixers of life, 4 thunder bombs, 2 drakeheart mutagens to hand out, and 2 giant centipede poisons. Does that seem about right?
My plan for the familiar was to give it manual dexterity and valet.
Should I not use minor elixirs of life till high level?
continual recovery does look better! I think ill swich that out!
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Watery Soup wrote: I find Continual Recovery more useful than Ward Medic.
What do your daily preparations look like at level 1? 5? 10?
Make sure your familiar has the appropriate feats to do what you want it to do. The Extra Reagent is tempting but if its primary purpose is delivering stuff that needs feats too.
As someone above pointed out, chirugeons start off slow. The minor elixir of life kind of sucks.
I've never used Healing Bombs but that's worth looking into. Maybe you can pick it up late, with that extra 10th level feat or something.
Im not sure at higher levels, but at level 1 I was thinking of preparing 2 elixers of life, 4 thunder bombs, 2 drakeheart mutagens to hand out, and 2 giant centipede poisons. Does that seem about right?
My plan for the familiar was to give it manual dexterity and valet.
Should I not use minor elixirs of life till high level?
continual recovery does look better! I think ill switch that out!
Rfkannen wrote: Im not sure at higher levels, but at level 1 I was thinking of preparing 2 elixers of life, 4 thunder bombs, 2 drakeheart mutagens to hand out, and 2 giant centipede poisons. Does that seem about right? It's mostly up to you. Make sure someone in your party will use the mutagens and poisons before committing to making them. I prefer lightning bombs for the flat-footed, but any bombs are fine, really.
The number of elixirs of life you make should be a multiple of 3, since you make 3 per infused reagent.
Rfkannen wrote: Should I not use minor elixirs of life till high level? I don't know. I've never played a chirugeon, but I do think that 1d6 healing is not a lot, even at 1st level, and especially not at 4th level (right before you get the upgrade).
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