What exactly can you use Aid for?

[The Rot Grub]

As presented, it looks like something that only works in Encounter mode, since it is a reaction on someone else's turn.

The other day, one of my players wanted to Aid another at their Treat Wounds check. Is this allowed?

And what about Aiding someone in crafting an item? Would this add a circumstance bonus? And could they combine their efforts to make Crafting faster?

[Gortle]

I think it is more correct to say that the rules are given for encounter mode. But you can always drop into encounter mode to take a roll.

Rules for Exploration Activities wrote:

Characters can always drop out of a continual exploration activity to perform a discrete one (even if they are fatigued and can’t sustain an exploration activity as they travel), and they can change activities at any time.

So clearly Aid to Treat Wounds out of combat is allowed.

I think there is room for GM to put extra limitations and insist for example that when Aiding you are taking more time than just the one action reaction.

Once you get into downtime activities though it all becomes ask your GM.

[Guntermench]

You can Aid whenever you want as long as you can reasonably prepare to help, as far as I know. Maybe not during Rituals.

[breithauptclan]

Aid is fairly well defined during encounter mode.

It is also fairly easy to 'drop into' encounter mode to Aid an action that could be done during encounter mode.

It is less well defined to use Aid for things that take more than an action or three. Personally I usually allow it. It is better on the math and the story than trying to have multiple people attempt the check.

So yes, Aid on a Medicine check to Treat Wounds for 10 minutes makes sense. Aid on a Survival check to follow tracks. Aid on someone else's Avoid Notice roll because no one has the Quiet Allies feat is probably fine too. But each of these are going to be rulings that the GM should be able to allow or disallow on an individual basis.

[The Rot Grub]

I personally don't think it's thematic to interrupt one's exploration activity to do 2 seconds of preparing to aid and reacting with the Aid action, when it's a 10-minute activity like Treat Wounds. I'm thinking of letting them Aid, but needing to spend the same amount of time. And of course, they need to able to describe what they're doing and it needs to make sense.

Treat Wounds for me is a no brainer. I can see people helping. But yeah otherwise it looks like it's up to the GM. I'm a bit unhappy that this isn't addressed in the CRB, as Aid Another was a common thing in 1e and it's easy to anticipate that this is something players will want to do. (Even if it's just to say that it's allowed but it's up to the GM.)

[Aw3som3-117]

The Rot Grub wrote:

I personally don't think it's thematic to interrupt one's exploration activity to do 2 seconds of preparing to aid and reacting with the Aid action, when it's a 10-minute activity like Treat Wounds. I'm thinking of letting them Aid, but needing to spend the same amount of time. And of course, they need to able to describe what they're doing and it needs to make sense.

Treat Wounds for me is a no brainer. I can see people helping. But yeah otherwise it looks like it's up to the GM. I'm a bit unhappy that this isn't addressed in the CRB, as Aid Another was a common thing in 1e and it's easy to anticipate that this is something players will want to do. (Even if it's just to say that it's allowed but it's up to the GM.)

I think that's totally reasonable, and is how I run it as well. Also, I think there's some backing for it in the rules. Not in the rules for the aid action, but rather in the general rules for exploration activities.

Exploration Activities wrote:

Improvising New Activities
If a player wants to do something not covered by other rules, here are some guidelines. If the activity is similar to an action someone could use in an encounter, such as Avoid Notice, it usually consists of a single action repeated roughly 10 times per minute (such as using the Sneak action 10 times) or an alternation of actions that works out similarly (such as Search, which alternates Stride and Seek). An activity using a quicker pace, corresponding to roughly 20 actions per minute, might have limited use or cause fatigue, as would one requiring intense concentration.

You might find that a player wants to do something equivalent to spending 3 actions every 6 seconds, just like they would in combat. Characters can exert themselves to this extent in combat only because combat lasts such a short time—such exertion isn’t sustainable over the longer time frame of exploration.

Since aiding is a single action (plus a reaction, which I'd just ignore), it seems reasonable to me to allow it as an exploration activity for someone else's exploration activity's check.

[The Raven Black]

Same for me : Aid as a 10 minutes activity.

[breithauptclan]

Yes. If you are using Aid on a non-encounter activity, the Aid should take the same amount of time as the activity that is being Aid'ed.

[graystone]

If you look at the Research subsystem [Pathfinder Society Guide pg. 116], they have NPC researchers [as a research assistant] Aid you "with a single skill check rolled as part of researching". As Research is a Downtime activity, it seems fine to use aid outside of an encounter. This also has the person Aiding spending the same amount of time even though it's only for a single roll [hired per day of research], though they could be let go after the roll I guess.

[Cordell Kintner]

Why do people think you can't use reactions outside an Encounter? If you couldn't, then simple traps wouldn't be able to work.

You can Aid perfectly fine outside an Encounter. The party member Aiding would just be using it constantly, just like the person performing the main action would be using their skill constantly, and both would only make a single roll to sum up their efforts.

[The Gleeful Grognard]

Cordell Kintner wrote:

Why do people think you can't use reactions outside an Encounter? If you couldn't, then simple traps wouldn't be able to work.

You can Aid perfectly fine outside an Encounter. The party member Aiding would just be using it constantly, just like the person performing the main action would be using their skill constantly, and both would only make a single roll to sum up their efforts.

Because you don't start combat with reactions and don't get one until you have taken your first turn as a general rule.

So it becomes expected that you don't get them in genral.

[Cordell Kintner]

You aren't in rounds in Exploration so that rule doesn't apply. Until you enter an Encounter you shouldn't apply Encounter rules.

By not giving reactions in Exploration, that's basically saying no one could use Feather Fall when they crit fail a Climb check, or even Grab an Edge. You couldn't use Air Bubble if all the air is sucked out of a room, or Scholarly Recollection when trying to recall knowledge on a painting. You couldn't even use your reactions that give a +2 bonus on saves, like Divine Grace or Charmed Life against a Fireball trap.

There's so many reactions that one would expect to be able to use that you're basically saying they can't just because they aren't in an Encounter.

[Guntermench]

The Gleeful Grognard wrote:

Because you don't start combat with reactions and don't get one until you have taken your first turn as a general rule.

...not necessarily?

Reactions in Encounters wrote:

The GM determines whether you can use reactions before your first turn begins, depending on the situation in which the encounter happens.

Unless you're surprised, I don't see a reason why you shouldn't have and be able to use your reaction most of the time, especially if you're expecting combat.

I'm aware of this:

Quote:

Once your first turn begins, you gain your actions and reaction.

But the line before it makes it less important imo.

On using reactions outside of encounters there's also this:

Quote:

Some reactions are specifically meant to be used in combat and can change how the battle plays out drastically.

This seems to clearly say reactions can be used outside of combat, other than specific reactions that are designed expressly for it.

[Gortle]

The Gleeful Grognard wrote:

Cordell Kintner wrote:

Why do people think you can't use reactions outside an Encounter? If you couldn't, then simple traps wouldn't be able to work.

You can Aid perfectly fine outside an Encounter. The party member Aiding would just be using it constantly, just like the person performing the main action would be using their skill constantly, and both would only make a single roll to sum up their efforts.

Because you don't start combat with reactions and don't get one until you have taken your first turn as a general rule.

So it becomes expected that you don't get them in genral.

Yes but you are allowed to drop into encounter mode as required to make a roll. So any denial is meaningless. Aid and reactions do effectively work in Exploration mode, because you just dip into Encounter mode to do them.

[The Gleeful Grognard]

Guntermench wrote:

...not necessarily

Yes, which is why I used the words "as a general rule"... and literally as a general rule this is the case.

Gortle wrote:

Yes but you are allowed to drop into encounter mode as required to make a roll. So any denial is meaningless. Aid and reactions do effectively work in Exploration mode, because you just dip into Encounter mode to do them.

Yeah, but I was answering the question of why people think you can't. The general rule I am referencing is why people generally think you can't.

It doesn't have to be right for it to be the reason why people do something.

[HumbleGamer]

You start the combat with a reaction ( there are some perks which shows this ), and gain one at the start of your turn ( which might result in 2 reactions on the first turn if the player wants to ).

Rules are kinda messy because the CRB mentions the 1/round, while you can use plenty of them depends the feats and the spells/skills your character has.

For example, APG suggests that you'll be always able to use your "Call to Arms" focus spell at the beginning of the round. If the oracle gains a reaction, then every single character ( and enemy ) gains one before the start of its turn.

Or else, they would have put the "call to arms" spell as a "free action" instead. But since they didn't, the only reason is that they wanted the oracle to "expend" a resource, which is available at the beginning of the combat. And since the oracle is not different from any other character, all characters by default have 1 reaction, which resets on their turn.

[The Raven Black]

The exact RAW is that the characters can use their reaction before their first turn if and only if the GM agrees.

Note that a sleeping Battle Oracle cannot use their Call to arms even though they are rolling for initiative.

[HumbleGamer]

The Raven Black wrote:

Note that a sleeping Battle Oracle cannot use their Call to arms even though they are rolling for initiative.

Ok, but that would be the exception to a normal scenario, which involves adventurers adventuring.

What I mean is that if the oracle can use a reaction when there's the initiative roll, means that he has one reaction. And because so anybody else ( unless sleeping ) is going to have a reaction too before their turn kicks in ( since the oracle has nothing more than any other character ).

The DM might oppose in specific situations if he deems it necessary, but if the DM is going to treat stuff like call to arms as a free action and not giving reactions to other characters too when the initiative checks occurs, to me he's doing it wrong.