You can tell I am off work because character ideas I need help with are coming to me fast.
So from reading Rylar's guide to the Hunter to now reading LordKailas'Guide to having multiple companions
I want to make a strong (some would say OP) build based around a pack of wolves.
The only way to have multiple of the same animal companion is through a class archetyle that splits up your AC levels (You can probably see where this is going), and for that I want to build around the often claimed Hunter'trap archetype' the Packmaster.
To get a pack of decent level wolves I then need to stack on as many Animal Companion Stacking feats as possible
Hunter (Packmaster)
Speed: 20 ft.
Race: Gnome or Halfling
Stats - 25 Points
Str:
Dex:
Cons:
Int:
Wis:
Cha:
TRAITS
FEATS
1 (Level)- Exotic Heritage - KN: Nature
3 (Level)- Eldritch Heritage (Sylvan)
5 (Level)- Boon Companion
7 (Level)-
9 (Level)-
11 (Level) -
13 (Level) -
15 (Level) - Diefic Obedience (Erastil)
17 (Level) -
19 (Level) -
TEAMWORK FEATS
3 (Level)-
6 (Level) -
The Sylvan 1st level Bloodline Power gets me a 2nd animal companion (@Character level -5). Therefore at level 20 in combination with Huntmaster capstone the character should get between 3 and 4 decent animal companions
1st - Level 19
2nd - Level 19
3rd (Huntmaster) - Level 16
4th (Temp - Diefic obedience) - Level 19
5th - Level 1 (Falcon for scouting)
That is just a chassis and I would love more Animal Companions but seriously limited on feats.
What fighting style to pick?
What teamwork feats?
What strategy?
Can you help
Eldritch heritage (sylvan) is specifically called out as something which doesn't work because it requires the bloodline arcana and a 1st level power, while EH only gives the latter.
If you have multiple companions I think the beast speaker and beast speaker mastery feats could work for more than one/all of them. A basilisk, a bulette and a sun falcon could be a fairly scary combo.
Eldritch heritage (sylvan) is specifically called out as something which doesn't work because it requires the bloodline arcana and a 1st level power, while EH only gives the latter.
This has been debated so much. I am going for the RAW interpretation over the RAI just to avoid any derailment.
The other option is a 3 class multiclass build between Fighter (no archetype yet), Ranger (Beastmaster Skirmisher) & Cavalier (no archetype or order decided yet)
1 – Fighter – 1 – Level – Nature Soul
1 – Fighter – 1 – Bonus – Power Attack
2 – Fighter – 2 - Bonus – Combat Reflexes
3 – Beastmaster – 1 – Level -
4 – Beastmaster – 2 – Bonus -
5 – Beastmaster – 3 – Level – Animal Ally
6 – Beastmaster – 4
7 – Cavalier – 1 – Level – Boon Companion
7 – Cavalier – 1 – Bonus Teamwork -
8 – Cavalier – 2 –
9 – Cavalier – 3 – Level – Boon Companion
10 – Cavalier – 4
11 – Beastmaster – 5 – Level – Expert Rider
13 – Beastmaster – 7 – Level -
15 – Beastmaster – 9 – Level – Diefic Obedience: Erastil
By level 15 my total Animal Companion level should be 41 which can equal three level 13 wolves and a level 2 bird plus an extra AC as a standard action for 15 rounds
I'm guessing expert rider is meant to be horse master? This makes your mount use character level rather than class level, but you can't split its level between companions unless you take the huntmaster archetype (which can't take horse master except in PFS, and PFS allows it only one companion).
Assuming expert rider = horse master that gives you at L15: one L15 mount and 18-29 levels (animal ally 12, beast master 9, +4*2 from 2 boon companions; one is only +3 if applied to animal ally) between at least 2 animal companions, with a minimum L5 for anything boon companion is applied to. That could work out as 1 L15 (mount), one L12 (animal ally), one L12 (beastmaster) and one L5 falcon (also beastmaster), or 2 L15s (mount, animal ally), one L8 (beastmaster) and one L5 falcon (beastmaster). 3 L13s is undoable though.
I'm guessing expert rider is meant to be horse master?
Yes
This makes your mount use character level rather than class level, but you can't split its level between companions unless you take the huntmaster archetype (which can't take horse master except in PFS, and PFS allows it only one companion).
The way I understand it is the Cavalier mount stacks with the animal companion levels from Animal Ally and Beastmaster. Which at character level 10 is equal to 4. Then at character level 11 it becomes 11 plus my Animal companion levels from Animal Ally and Beastmaster. Beastmaster then divides them up
Beastmaster divides its own levels up; it does nothing with animal companions from other sources. Because those are from other sources and have their own rules, it has no wording to take over other class features. It's a bit of a stretch to put boon companion into a pool too given its wording:
The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were 4 levels higher, to a maximum effective druid level equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit.
It is this rule that I am looking at
Do animal companion levels from the druid class stack with cavalier mount levels?
If the animal is on the cavalier mount list and on the list of animal companions for your other class, your cavalier and druid levels stack to determine the animal’s abilities.
Beastmaster divides its own levels up; it does nothing with animal companions from other sources. Because those are from other sources and have their own rules, it has no wording to take over other class features. It's a bit of a stretch to put boon companion into a pool too given its wording:
The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were 4 levels higher, to a maximum effective druid level equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit.
That really doesn't matter, you can easily just make one AC 4 levels lower than the rest than boost it with Boon Companion
AVR wrote:
That could work out as 1 L15 (mount), one L12 (animal ally), one L12 (beastmaster) and one L5 falcon (also beastmaster), or 2 L15s (mount, animal ally), one L8 (beastmaster) and one L5 falcon (beastmaster).
Let's just go off of that for right now... at this level, a TWF Ranger/Slayer could have six attacks without any help, an archer is firing at least 5 arrow/round, natural attackers and Monks are probably rocking 5-6 attacks per round... I hope you have a strategy for all these extra combatants, otherwise every encounter is going to take forever. Find archetypes for your companions, give them dedicated roles, positions within a formation.
Have multiple formations planned ahead of time so you can fluidly react to a plethora of situations. It is still going to be an absolute mess, but if you have your $#!+ together, and solid tactics within the zoo you bring to the table, it might just be doable.
You, yourself, should probably be an archer... because anything that flies could kill every single one of your dogs.
You, yourself, should probably be an archer... because anything that flies could kill every single one of your dogs.
Honestly I would love too, from what I can tell from toying around with a few builds is that I do not have the feats for it (which is amazing considering how many bonus feat classes I am stacking currently)
Have you ever considered gestalt? Trying to pull this off multiclassing leaves A LOT to be desired.
The whole Mowgli, pack of wolves thing is cool and all. But, it's all flavor and no substance... which is Cohort territory.
I think you should be an Evangelist Cleric... with whatever Domain gives you an Animal Companion. And you should take Leadership to build your "pack master". This allows you to build a semi-competent character that has an Animal Companion and, best of all, buffs this entire zoo to high heaven, making combat encounters shorter because everything is dead in the first round... meaning we only have to suffer through the pack's initiative once.
Have you ever considered gestalt? Trying to pull this off multiclassing leaves A LOT to be desired.
Not for me
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I have been giving this some serious thought and think I have come up with something that is pretty good.
BUILD
CLASSES
Fighter 2
Ranger (Beastmaster & Skirmisher & Wild Hunter) 4
Cavalier (Order of the Sword/Knight Errrant/Order of the Reins) 4
Ranger (Beastmaster & Skirmisher & Wild Hunter) 10
The two levels in Fighter are nothing more than to delay getting an Animal Companion to qualify for Animal Ally with the level 5 feat (You could theoretically retrain your level 3 feat at level 4 and have one less level dip in Fighter but the bonus feat really helps). Choosing an Order was difficult; Order of the Reins is really thematic, while Order of the Sword and Knight Errant/Ronin help with the all weak Will Save
OUTLINE
Speed: 20 ft.
Race: Halfling
Racial Traits: Caretaker
Stats – 25 Points
Str: 18-2= 16
Dex: 12+2-14
Cons: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 13
Cha: 7+2=9
The character had to be small so that their Cavalier mount options stack. Halfling beats out Gnome for the Caretaker racial ability
Humans often entrust halfling families with the care of children and animals, a task that has helped them develop keen insight. Such halflings gain a +2 racial bonus on Sense Motive checks. In addition, when they acquire an animal companion, bonded mount, cohort, or familiar, that creature gains a +2 bonus to one ability score of the character’s choice.This starts each Wolf off at an Intelligence level of 4, qualifying it for extra feats and gaining it 3 more tricks
TRAITS
Beastkin (Social)
Indomitable Faith (Faith)
Beastkin allows them to seamlessly communicate with "The Pack", and Indomitable Faith is needed to again sure up that Will Save
FEATS
1 – Fighter – 1 – Level – Dirty Fighting
1 – Fighter – 1 – Bonus – Power Attack
2 – Fighter – 2 – Bonus – Combat Reflexes
3 – Beastmaster – 1 – Level – Nature Soul
4 – Beastmaster – 2 – Bonus – Mounted Combat
5 – Beastmaster – 3 – Level – Animal Ally
7 – Cavalier – 1 – Level – Boon Companion
7 – Cavalier – 1 – Bonus Teamwork – Pack Flanking
9 – Cavalier – 3 – Level – Outflank
11 – Beastmaster – 5 – Level – Horse Master
12 – Beastmaster – 6 – Bonus – Improved Empathetic Link
13 – Beastmaster – 7 – Level – Boon Companion
15 – Beastmaster – 9 – Level – Diefic Obedience: Erastil
16 – Beastmaster – 10 – Bonus – Mounted Skirmisher
17 – Beastmaster – 11 – Level – Coordinated Charge
19 – Beastmaster – 13 – Level – TBD
20 – Beastmaster – 14 – Bonus – TBD
11 – Upending Strike
13 – Sic ‘Em
15 – Bolster Companion
17 – Heel
19 – Vengeance Strike
The Skirmishers Hunter's Tricks trades out the Rangers spellcasting (6 levels delayed) for a few cool/fun abilities. Upending Strike turns the PC into a tripper just like the wolf, and then the rest are exponentially beneficial by having more than one AC.
ANIMAL COMPANION
Archetype: Bodyguard
An Archetype to trade away Share Spells considering I no longer have any (Skirmisher). It was this or Ambusher
ANIMAL COMPANION FEATS
1 – Dirty Fighting
2 – Improved Trip
7 – Pack Flanking
9 – Outflank
10 – Greater Trip
? -
17 – Coordinated Charge
Solely focused on trips to create as many AoO as possible, and a bunch of teamwork feats to work together and with the PC. The PC can then share a teamwork feat with the party so that they to can work alongside "The Pack"
ANIMAL COMPANION TRICKS
- Attack
- Attack anything
- Heel
- Withdraw
- Seek
- Guard
- Come
- Defend
- Down
I have put these in order of what I think I would take. Having an INT of 4 gets the AC +3 Tricks
I made a Google Sheet to help track AC Levels by Character level