Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Does unconventional weaponry allow non-racial trait advanced weapons? Like the Rhoka sword for instance? I am pretty sure it doesn't, but most seem to allow it. Here is the text.
"You've familiarized yourself with a particular weapon, potentially from another ancestry or culture. Choose an uncommon simple or martial weapon with a trait corresponding to an ancestry (such as dwarf, goblin, or orc) or that is common in another culture. You gain access to that weapon, and for the purpose of determining your proficiency, that weapon is a simple weapon.
If you are trained in all martial weapons, you can choose an uncommon advanced weapon with such a trait. You gain access to that weapon, and for the purpose of determining your proficiency, that weapon is a martial weapon."
My reading is that the advanced weaponry portion is more restrictive. It only applies to weapons with a racial trait, as it says "weapon with such a trait" which is not "common in another culture" as that isn't a trait.
This makes sense to me, as otherwise this feat is as good as a lvl 6 fighter class feat, or taking a specific archetype.
You can take whatever you want with unconventional weaponry ( among the advanced weapons ).
Rememnber also that you can select that feat just once.
Finally, the comparison with the lvl 6 fighter class feat is off, since it's an ancestry feat only available for humans. Leaving apart that ancestry feats are way less if compared with the class feats.
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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
HumbleGamer wrote: You can take whatever you want with unconventional weaponry ( among the advanced weapons ).
Rememnber also that you can select that feat just once.
Finally, the comparison with the lvl 6 fighter class feat is off, since it's an ancestry feat only available for humans. Leaving apart that ancestry feats are way less if compared with the class feats.
How do you read the advanced weapon portion to allow any advanced weapon? It is rather specific that "choose an uncommon advanced weapon with such a trait."
It doesn't say any advanced weapon, they specifically put in that restriction.
CaffeinatedNinja wrote: HumbleGamer wrote: You can take whatever you want with unconventional weaponry ( among the advanced weapons ).
Rememnber also that you can select that feat just once.
Finally, the comparison with the lvl 6 fighter class feat is off, since it's an ancestry feat only available for humans. Leaving apart that ancestry feats are way less if compared with the class feats.
How do you read the advanced weapon portion to allow any advanced weapon? It is rather specific that "choose an uncommon advanced weapon with such a trait."
It doesn't say any advanced weapon, they specifically put in that restriction. I really thought the rohka sword was under the tengu swords,that why i gave it for granted, but I was definitely wrong.
It might probably the only weapon you can't get with unconventional weaponry ( until maybe some new ancestry will unlock it ).
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HumbleGamer wrote: CaffeinatedNinja wrote: HumbleGamer wrote: You can take whatever you want with unconventional weaponry ( among the advanced weapons ).
Rememnber also that you can select that feat just once.
Finally, the comparison with the lvl 6 fighter class feat is off, since it's an ancestry feat only available for humans. Leaving apart that ancestry feats are way less if compared with the class feats.
How do you read the advanced weapon portion to allow any advanced weapon? It is rather specific that "choose an uncommon advanced weapon with such a trait."
It doesn't say any advanced weapon, they specifically put in that restriction. I really thought the rohka sword was under the tengu swords,that why i gave it for granted, but I was definitely wrong.
It might probably the only weapon you can't get with unconventional weaponry ( until maybe some new ancestry will unlock it ). Uhhh... what?
I just looked it up on the PRD and if I counted correctly 16 of the 21 advanced weapons aren't related to an ancestry. So, I repeat: Uhhh... what?
I mean, it's possible that a weapon will have an ancestry's trait put on it in an errata, but I wouldn't exactly call that likely. It's not like Paizo has indicated that they intend for all weapons to be associated with an ancestry, nor is that the case for a variety of weapons at the moment.
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CaffeinatedNinja wrote: Does unconventional weaponry allow non-racial trait advanced weapons? Like the Rhoka sword for instance? I am pretty sure it doesn't, but most seem to allow it. Here is the text.
"You've familiarized yourself with a particular weapon, potentially from another ancestry or culture. Choose an uncommon simple or martial weapon with a trait corresponding to an ancestry (such as dwarf, goblin, or orc) or that is common in another culture. You gain access to that weapon, and for the purpose of determining your proficiency, that weapon is a simple weapon.
If you are trained in all martial weapons, you can choose an uncommon advanced weapon with such a trait. You gain access to that weapon, and for the purpose of determining your proficiency, that weapon is a martial weapon."
My reading is that the advanced weaponry portion is more restrictive. It only applies to weapons with a racial trait, as it says "weapon with such a trait" which is not "common in another culture" as that isn't a trait.
This makes sense to me, as otherwise this feat is as good as a lvl 6 fighter class feat, or taking a specific archetype.
I'm sure some of the advanced weapons don't qualify, but I'd like to point out that the Rhoka Sword's description is as follows:
Rhoka Sword wrote: These dual-bladed swords are commonly used by urdefhan warriors. Which is the exact wording that unconventional weaponry uses. It says to choose a weapon with an ancestry's trait OR "that is common in another culture."
Not everything in the game has to do with traits. Perhaps it should be (that's a question for another time), but I think in this case it's pretty clear that the Rhoka Sword works because it's "commonly used by urdefhan warriors.", and if "commonly used by X" isn't "common in another cluture" then I don't know what is.
Aw3som3-117 wrote: HumbleGamer wrote: CaffeinatedNinja wrote: HumbleGamer wrote: You can take whatever you want with unconventional weaponry ( among the advanced weapons ).
Rememnber also that you can select that feat just once.
Finally, the comparison with the lvl 6 fighter class feat is off, since it's an ancestry feat only available for humans. Leaving apart that ancestry feats are way less if compared with the class feats.
How do you read the advanced weapon portion to allow any advanced weapon? It is rather specific that "choose an uncommon advanced weapon with such a trait."
It doesn't say any advanced weapon, they specifically put in that restriction. I really thought the rohka sword was under the tengu swords,that why i gave it for granted, but I was definitely wrong.
It might probably the only weapon you can't get with unconventional weaponry ( until maybe some new ancestry will unlock it ). Uhhh... what?
I just looked it up on the PRD and if I counted correctly 16 of the 21 advanced weapons aren't related to an ancestry.
Also, it's possible that a weapon will have an ancestry's trait put on it in an errata, but I wouldn't exactly call that likely. It's not like Paizo has indicated that they intend for all weapons to be associated with an ancestry, nor is that the case for a variety of weapons at the moment. I messed up.
Thought every advanced weapon had an ancestry tag, and that was only the rohka sword the exception ( pathbuilder tricked me into this ).
Unless they are not referring to the traits but to the availability in a specific culture. Something like "given an arsenal of weapons, every single one of them would be typical to a specific race, and because so unconventional weaponry would work with any advanced weapon ).
...
As you pointed out with the rohka sword, this might be said about any advanced weapon.
Anyway, to think that unconventional weaponry would give access to 6 weapons out of 21 would drastically change anything...
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Aw3som3-117 wrote:
It says to choose a weapon with an ancestry's trait OR "that is common in another culture."
That is the wording for picking a martial weapon, not for picking an advanced weapon. It allows a racial trait, or common in another culture.
The advanced weaponry section only covers the trait portion, it doesn't have the "common in another culture part.
CaffeinatedNinja wrote: Aw3som3-117 wrote:
It says to choose a weapon with an ancestry's trait OR "that is common in another culture."
That is the wording for picking a martial weapon, not for picking an advanced weapon. It allows a racial trait, or common in another culture.
The advanced weaponry section only covers the trait portion, it doesn't have the "common in another culture part. That seems correct to me.
Then the main purpose of the feat would be for the character to gain access to a racial weapon?
I mean, expending an ancestry feat to get a martial weapon he could use anyway ( or obtain through trading, lootin and so on )?
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
HumbleGamer wrote: CaffeinatedNinja wrote: Aw3som3-117 wrote:
It says to choose a weapon with an ancestry's trait OR "that is common in another culture."
That is the wording for picking a martial weapon, not for picking an advanced weapon. It allows a racial trait, or common in another culture.
The advanced weaponry section only covers the trait portion, it doesn't have the "common in another culture part. That seems correct to me.
Then the main purpose of the feat would be for the character to gain access to a racial weapon?
I mean, expending an ancestry feat to get a martial weapon he could use anyway ( or obtain through trading, lootin and so on )? Well it does two things. One, it grants access, which may or may not matter depending on your GM. Two, it lowers the proficiency a level which is a big thing. It gives martials access to an advanced weapon, or lets classes with only simple weapons use a martial weapon.
CaffeinatedNinja wrote: Aw3som3-117 wrote:
It says to choose a weapon with an ancestry's trait OR "that is common in another culture."
That is the wording for picking a martial weapon, not for picking an advanced weapon. It allows a racial trait, or common in another culture.
The advanced weaponry section only covers the trait portion, it doesn't have the "common in another culture part. Good point. I didn't notice that the wording was different for the advanced weapons section. Personally I'd allow it, but a strict reading seems to indicate that the other cultures part is only for martial weapons.
I mean, it really feels like it should apply to both, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's definitely a typo or anything. Idk, perhaps I'm just undervaluing advanced weapons. But then again, there's nothing inherently weaker about advanced weapons linked to an ancestry compared to ones not linked to an ancestry. Huh... interesting.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Aw3som3-117 wrote: CaffeinatedNinja wrote: Aw3som3-117 wrote:
It says to choose a weapon with an ancestry's trait OR "that is common in another culture."
That is the wording for picking a martial weapon, not for picking an advanced weapon. It allows a racial trait, or common in another culture.
The advanced weaponry section only covers the trait portion, it doesn't have the "common in another culture part. Good point. I didn't notice that the wording was different for the advanced weapons section. Personally I'd allow it, but a strict reading seems to indicate that the other cultures part is only for martial weapons.
I mean, it really feels like it should apply to both, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's definitely a typo or anything. Idk, perhaps I'm just undervaluing advanced weapons. But then again, there's nothing inherently weaker about advanced weapons linked to an ancestry compared to ones not linked to an ancestry. Huh... interesting. Yeah, it is kind of weird. I suppose the logic is that humans can already access other races racial weapons, giving them all the advanced weapons would be way too much.
On that note though, what is with all the advanced weapons they keep making? Really only fighters can use them starting at lvl 6. Very odd. Even if you do let human's take them, that means one class and one race can use em?
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Poor monks, not being able to use their Hook Swords.
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Yeah, advanced weapons are in a weird place where they look really cool but due to proficiency no one dare use them if they can't manage to change the proficiency to scale off their other weapon proficiency.
Certain weapons like the Aldori dueling sword have an entire archetype dedicated to it, which includes changing the how the proficiency scales.
Mauler archetype gives you scaling proficiency in two-hand weapons.
It's a bit of a waste (IMO) to have so many advanced weapons that no one will bother to use because getting proficiency scaling is so difficult on them.
If it requires being a fighter or a human to do it's very limiting.
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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Claxon wrote: Yeah, advanced weapons are in a weird place where they look really cool but due to proficiency no one dare use them if they can't manage to change the proficiency to scale off their other weapon proficiency.
Certain weapons like the Aldori dueling sword have an entire archetype dedicated to it, which includes changing the how the proficiency scales.
Mauler archetype gives you scaling proficiency in two-hand weapons.
It's a bit of a waste (IMO) to have so many advanced weapons that no one will bother to use because getting proficiency scaling is so difficult on them.
If it requires being a fighter or a human to do it's very limiting.
Agreed, and I don't think humans can do it hah.
Advanced weapons are in a really weird place right now. I kind of feel they should scrap a lot of them or give other classes ways to use them.
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