More Build Help: Pirate with a gun?


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Dark Archive

All right, I need more forum wizardry to help me wrangle a concept into some kind of coherent build. Player is wanting to play a smooth talking pirate that fights dirty, sword and gun preferably. Also has expressed interest in the possibility of having some kind of spellcasting. The player last player a martial that basically devolved to I run at the thing and hit it till it dies every round and there really wasn't any decision making to be done. So I am trying to think of things that are a bit more well rounded in terms of being able to offer some battle field control with Dirty Tricks and still having some damage.

My problem is every train of though I have with this character either ends with it being jack of all trades master of none, which in my experience end up not being fun. Or it end up focusing too hard on one aspect of things, to the point where you would never do anything else.

Currently my thought is to go swashbuckler and multiclass into something. I am currently wrestling with the idea of you go in with melee, do something to get them flatfooted, then because they are flat footed use the gun point blank and shoot them flat footed touch. I feel like you'd need to get a bunch of things that decrease accuracy and up damage for that to make sense. I feel like something is there but I cant get the individual pieces to make a picture.

Anybody have a good idea for a gun and blade pirate build that doesn't just devolve into your either real bad with a gun and good with a sword or real bad with a sword but good with a gun?


Is it "guns everywhere", or do we have to worry about gaining proficiency in firearms?

Urban Bloodrager with Arcane Strike, Blooded Arcane Strike, and Spell Cartridges has unlimited self-reloading force bullets as long as they Rage. Arcane Strike also works with their sword and is always on as long as they Rage. Gloves of Arcane Striking turn both the sword and pistol into splash weapons. Lol.

A level of Inspired Blade Swashbuckler gets you Dex to damage with a Rapier if you take Fencing Grace.

Then just work towards Sword & Pistol... it takes PBS, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus Pistol, Snap Shot, and TWF... so, good luck. Lol.

Human
Inspired Blade Swahsy
1. Weapon Finesse
1. Weapon Focus Rapier
1. Fencing Grace
1. Point Blank Shot

Urban Bloodrager (Arcane Bloodline)
2.
3. Weapon Focus Pistol
4.
5. Arcane Strike
6.
7. Combat Reflexes (Bloodline)
7. Blooded Arcane Strike
8.
9. Spell Cartridges
10. Iron Will (Bloodline)
11. Rapid Shot
12.
13. Improved Initiative (Bloodline)
13. Snap Shot
14.
15. TWF
16. Power Attack (Bloodline)
17. Sword & Pistol

High Charisma so you can socialize. Dex-Rage with Dex-to-DMG is going to have to cover melee and Initiative until... it takes entirely too long to come online and isn't that great even when it does. Drats.

Human Buccaneer Gunslinger gets Sword & Pistol at level 9. But the rest is meh.

Are you allowed to be Kasatha?


Inspired Blade 1/Trench Fighter 3 gets you Dex-to-DMG with a Rapier and firearm... but still no actual proficiency, or Gunsmithing ability.

Inspired Blade 1/Savage Tech Barbarian 5 gets you Dex-to-DMG with a Rapier and firearm and proficency... AND, an ability called Sword & Gun your 2nd level of Barbarian.

Siege Gunner Gunslinger is Intelligence-based for its Grit, so that opens up some of your Grenadier Alchemist and Eldritch Archer Magus options. Or even Spellslinger or Siege Mage Wizard. Pairs well with a level of Inspired Blade for your sword stuffs, too.

Any of this remotely close to what you might want to explore further?


The Ratfolk Gulch Gunner Gunslinger is all about being up close and personal with their guns, too. Could probably work a sword into that pretty easily.

Construct Sabotuer-Scout-Underground Chemist UnRogue gets Arcane Strike that scales with their Rogue levels, Sneak Attack on a charge, and Bombs... Bombs will make use of a lot of the same feats as firearms, so they don't actually take any extra investment. Just need to figure out a way to get you a gun. Technically, you probably can't take Spell Cartridges, even though you have Arcane Strike... but I would allow it at my tables, for whatever that may be worth.


Gun-n-sword is one of those builds that take a long time to come online. What level will the character start at, and at what will it end?


How do you feel about juggling...

And does it make a difference if it is "Combat Juggling"?

Silver Crusade

The Steel Hound Investigator is a possibility, although it takes a lot of feats/talents to make it work. In general, melee/range switch hitters don't work very well in Pathfinder.

Dark Archive

Oh boy lot to answer. We are going to be playing through runelords. Standard gun rules. I unfortunately already vetoed trench fighter for the cowboy because imo it is way overpowered unless the setting is modern guns. Levels will go from 2(maybe 3)-18. Races I am cool with anything but goblin, the alien races, and 3rd party.

Also thank you for the build ideas I will look at some of the archetypes and feats mentioned.

Dark Archive

Hmm I talked it over with the gunslinger and he seemed ok with understanding that while I feel it would be overpowered in his build since he was already taking base fighter levels and was getting proficiency from elsewhere, that for this swashbuckler build I think allowing it will basically allow him to be doing similar damage to just a two weapon fighting melee build, plus there will already be problems of him reloading the guns.

Anyone see any potential exploits thatd break things by letting him go trench fighter inspired blade (if I remember right there is a way to use int to diplo and bluff so he could still be a "smooth talker" going int instead of charisma). I guess that also potentially opens up levels of eldritch archer Magus if he really wants to since Ranged Spell Combat says you dont need a free hand with "ranged weapons"

Spoiler:
(Ex)
Instead of a light or one-handed melee weapon, an eldritch archer must use a ranged weapon for spell combat. She doesn’t need a free hand for ranged spell combat. The eldritch archer cannot accept an attack penalty to gain a bonus on concentration checks to cast a spell defensively.

This ability modifies spell combat.


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An option that most will consider a terrible choice is the Picaroon archetype for Swashbuckler… it is literally designed for sword & gun… one of the main issues most have with it is reloading while wielding two weapons is very problematic… but if you play a race with a prehensile tail (or the ability to gain one) that problem disappears. It is a free action to change hands on a weapon, and while the prehensile tail can’t “wield” a weapon nothing stops it from simply “holding” one thus freeing up a hand for reloading and then as another free action switching hands back from the tail into a proper hand that can wield the weapon again… another major issue is it is one of the few firearm archetypes that doesn’t give you a battered firearm or gun smithing…

The picaroon archetype would allow using many of the swashbuckler features with the firearm as well as a sword and grants two weapon fighting with sword and gun… since reloading a firearm is time consuming however, you may wish to take one of the firearms that double as melee weapons such as a dagger pistol so that you can take full advantage of two weapon fighting even when your firearm is not loaded… (of course a pirate might stab you a few times with the bladed portion of the weapon even if it is loaded and then shoot you)


@Backpack

"way to use int to diplo and bluff"
That would be the Student of Philosophy social trait.

@Chell Raighn

The biggest issue is that Precise Strike is unaltered by the archetype.


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Out of everything to get the banhammer, it's the Trench Fighter?!?! They don't even get freaking proficiency. Lol. No Gunsmithing. No Grit. No Deeds. No starting with a battered gun. No crafting bullets. Hilarious.

I had forgotten about Picaroon, honestly. And Dune Drifter Cavalier, until now.

Dark Archive

VoodistMonk wrote:

Out of everything to get the banhammer, it's the Trench Fighter?!?! They don't even get freaking proficiency. Lol. No Gunsmithing. No Grit. No Deeds. No starting with a battered gun. No crafting bullets. Hilarious.

I had forgotten about Picaroon, honestly. And Dune Drifter Cavalier, until now.

IMO, most of gunslinger is a bad class. It's redeeming quality is picking up dex to damage. A trench fighter with a 1 lv multi class into something that gives gunsmithing is superior to a gunslinger in just about every way I can think of. To clarify I am not saying a gunslinger is bad in the big picture, just that imo the "best" gunslinger is the one that takes as little gunslinger as possible.


Yeah, but for a player that wants a particularly involved and feat intensive fighting style... helping them at least get close to the desired flavor in a semi-reasonable amount of time... and be half-@$$ reliable as a combatant... Trench Fighter 3 is a perfect dip to send the character in the right direction.

To deny those 3 levels forces worse choices, makes a worse character, or at least takes longer to get the same result. It seems like a knee-jerk BS reaction to something that is an obvious boon in such a complicated build.

They want spells, too? How is someone supposed to fit in all this crap when they apparently have to take the long way for every item they want?

Throw the dog a bone...

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