A sorcerer's capstone ability that they can trade out for an alternate capstone appears to be their 20th level bloodline power.
A barbarian's capstone ability that they can trade out for an alternate capstone appears to be Mighty Rage.
A bloodrager gets a 20th level bloodline power and mighty bloodrage.
Which can be traded out for an alternate capstone?
(Im assumed I could trade out the 20th level bloodline power like a sorcerer can, forgetting that bloodragers also get another ability at that level. Do I trade out either one, both, or has it been clarified that it's one and not the other?)
Mighty Bloodrage is the capstone.
Mighty Bloodrage is the capstone.
How do you know / Where does it say it is?
The issue is that i cant find anything to say either one is the capstone. (The 20th level bloodline power is arguably the stronger of the two for many bloodlines and as I pointed out the bloodline power is the capstone for sorcerer.)
Do you have any rules text or paizo quotes that backs up your statement?
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This is a good question.
You're right, the sorcerer's normal capstone appears to be the 20th level bloodline power. The text specifically calls out that the cleric and wizard "don't have capstones to begin with" and implies by omission that the sorcerer does. But if the bloodrager's capstone is the bloodline power, then he gets to keep mighty bloodrage if he trades out the other.
If I was the GM and had to make a decision for a campaign, it would depend on how insane the campaign had gotten. It's 20th level. If we're already in the realm of "and then the second (of 20) Colossal Kaiju dies to your full-attack, the third uses his auto-crit ability to do 400 points to the fighter" then yeah, just the bloodline power. If it's more like lower levels but with bigger numbers, I'd probably require you to trade both.
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The other interpretation is to say that the sorcerer - like the cleric and wizard - doesn't ordinarily have a capstone. If the 20th level bloodline power is the capstone, what happens with a character that has a Robe of Arcane Heritage? Can she pick an alternate capstone at 16th level? Does she get the 20th level power from levels 16-19, then get to pick an alternate and lose the power she just had?
20th level is full of judgment calls no matter how you slice it.
I would go with Mighty Bloodrage because it is a new named thing rather than another occurrence of "bloodline power" that has already occurred at lower levels. Note that I am going by the wording and not logically trying to figure out which of the two would be a bigger deal to the player of a bloodrager.
The other interpretation is to say that the sorcerer - like the cleric and wizard - doesn't ordinarily have a capstone. If the 20th level bloodline power is the capstone, what happens with a character that has a Robe of Arcane Heritage? Can she pick an alternate capstone at 16th level? Does she get the 20th level power from levels 16-19, then get to pick an alternate and lose the power she just had?
20th level is full of judgment calls no matter how you slice it.
It would be the same issue as any archetype that trades out or modifies bloodline powers. You would have to make your choice at 16th level, and you would have nothing at that point if you are giving up your bloodline power. Presumably, a 16th level sorcerer with a Robe of Arcane Heritage usually wouldn't trade in his default capstone.
Love to see the post getting engagement, but I'm not looking for opinions on what people would decide to rule and how they think it should be.
I'm asking if there is RAW to confirm which is the capstone or any quotes from the people that made the alternate capstones about what they intended the bloodrager to replace.
From the lack of anything of that nature being posted and people posting opinions instead, I'm guessing nothing like that exists. (Which is disappointing but understandable.)
Rather than looking at the table with BAB/Saves etc, look at the list of class features. Tireless Bloodrage is the only new class feature they get at level 20.
So either Tireless bloodrage is the capstone, or Tireless Bloodrage and the 20th level Bloodline power are both the capstone, which would mean you lose both if you take an alternate capstone.
I would go with Mighty Bloodrage because it is a new named thing rather than another occurrence of "bloodline power" that has already occurred at lower levels. Note that I am going by the wording and not logically trying to figure out which of the two would be a bigger deal to the player of a bloodrager.
That is a nice logical reason... but unfortunately alternate capstones don’t follow the logical... just look at brawler... instead of losing the logical improved awesome blow, they lose the 20th level advancement of martial flexibility...
Rather than looking at the table with BAB/Saves etc, look at the list of class features. Tireless Bloodrage is the only new class feature they get at level 20.
You mean Mighty Bloodrage? Tireless Bloodrage is granted at 17th...
Rather than looking at the table with BAB/Saves etc, look at the list of class features. Tireless Bloodrage is the only new class feature they get at level 20.You mean Mighty Bloodrage? Tireless Bloodrage is granted at 17th...
Derp =P
Yes I mean Mighty Bloodrage.
I would say that sorcerer still has a capstone as the benefits given by your bloodline aren't part of the blood line feature, but decided by your bloodline from a long list of possible features (same as a bonus feat, a cavalier order ability, domain or school ability, etc.). That said, Bloodrager then is getting two capstones, and should have to trade them both away for an alt capstone. At least in their case, there's an actual trade off for doing it as opposed to normal barbarian who should always trade away mighty rage for the +8 stat boost because they can put +2 in Str/Con/Wis and get the same bonuses that rage gives you, but permanent and still have +2 left over to do whatever you want with.