A player in a game I will be running wants to play a sprite but has no ideas beyond that.
They will be an infrequent player and we will be using the aloof/distractable nature of fey to explain them coming and going.
Game will start 2nd level with the free archetype varient.
The player is an RPG vet vut tends towards Cha characters. He has no time between work and homelife to come up with something so I got approval to suprise him.
While crunch and bookkeeping aren't a no it would be best if the character could easily slot in if they are out a session or two.
I haven't mathed any of this out, but I really want to do the sprite cavalier build with magus as a base. Not 100% what it does, but I love the image enough that it seems worthwhile as an idea.
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If you think your player would be interested, I have a couple sprites I built for Age Of Ashes that I won't be using:
Sprite/Slyph Monk - Wild Winds Initiate build (Punching from range using gusts of wind!) Very fast on the ground and eventually gets Slyph Wings. (I also have an earlier version of this which covers level 1-7 by taking Monastic Archery and yet another version that is a Monk/Alchemist)
Born and raised in Absalom, Max and his family are "City" sprites, known for helping struggling craftmen, particularly cobblers. As sprites go, Max is a bit mixed up, having grown up in a major human city (Adopted Ancestry - Human Feat) and his ancestors somehow having gotten a Slyph in the family tree (Slyph Versatile Heritage). But like his grandfather always said "A good craftsman is always welcome", so Max has decided to travel Golarion to see the world and the many shoes inhabiting it. Recently, Max has arrived in the town of Breachill, and has heard rumours of an abandoned castle full of shoes.
Sprite/Oread Wizard multiclass Witch/Arcane & Alchemist with Corgi Mount
GM allows Corgi Mount to combine with Witch Familiar so your mount will resurrect the next day if killed. Also, you get all the Witch slots at full Arcane spellcasting. This tiny sprite takes Stone Form at Level 17, so can turn into a HUGE earth elemental 1/day.
Originally hailing from the Wildwood, Glossaryck is a Luminous Sprite with Oread blood, something that both puzzled his family (as no one could figure out where that came from) and caused Glossaryck to feel like a bit of an outsider among the other sprites of the Wildwood. In time, Glossaryck left the Wildwood to pursue an interest in arcane magic, travelling to Nex, where he trained as a Wizard. Glossaryck spent decades in Nex and saw the war between Nex and Geb first hand. He remembers the day the Archwizard Nex fled to the Refuge, witnessed peace between Nex and Geb, and lived through the time of rebuilding.
Glossaryck recently decided to set off, leaving Nex, to return to the Wildwood. In travelling back to the Wildwood, Glossaryck reached the town of Breachill, heard about the Call Of Hearoes, and decided he really wasn't all that interested in visiting his relatives...
I can post more detail if you want.
Edit: These do not use the Free Archetype variant, but that should be easy to add. Also, both are CHA 10 - not big on social skills.
Sprite Wind monk sounds cool that is going on the list.
Since Ruzza mentioned it all the playtest classes are allowed one of the other players will be a Gunslinger in fact.
I also like the idea of Cavalier just since it is a tiny character so the mount could actually get used.
Navi
Either a Witch (Rune) or Oracle (Lore). Maybe both since you are doing free archetype. Though I don't personally like either of those classes as archetypes.
Navi
Either a Witch (Rune) or Oracle (Lore). Maybe both since you are doing free archetype. Though I don't personally like either of those classes as archetypes.
How did I not think of Navi I am the biggest Zelda nerd. This definitely warrents some exploration.
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Croma, the Barbarian. Use voluntary flaw for 18 STR. Giant instinct Barbarian, and wields an small sized Greataxe in order to ignore the reach penaly.
Insecure about his/her lack of wings, and magical talent, and overcompensated by learning how to wield the largest weapon they could find; a wood axe they took from a gnome that tried to bully them.
ARE YOU LOOKING AT ME, PUNK!?!
Croma, the Barbarian. Use voluntary flaw for 18 STR. Giant instinct Barbarian, and wields an small sized Greataxe in order to ignore the reach penaly.
This doesn't work.
Reach: "The normal rule is "Your reach is typically 5 feet, but weapons with the reach trait can extend this."
Tiny: "They can purchase weapons, armor, and other items for their size with the same statistics as normal gear, except that melee weapons have a reach of 0 for them (or a reach 5 feet shorter than normal if they have the reach trait)."
For all greataxes, they add 0 reach to the creatures reach, so tiny has 0[base]+0[greataxe]=0 while small/medium creatures has 5'[base]+0[greataxe]=5'. For a tiny creature to get a 5' reach like small/medium creatures do you need to pick up a reach weapon like a Boarding Pike of a Gill Hook.
Tiny: "They can purchase weapons, armor, and other items for their size with the same statistics as normal gear, except that melee weapons have a reach of 0 for them (or a reach 5 feet shorter than normal if they have the reach trait)."
I thought this was a quality of the tiny weapon. So a small axe would have the normal range.
Oh well, halberd hits almost as hard. Plus, becoming large at level 6 negates it anyways.Build's mostly for fun.
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Tiny: "They can purchase weapons, armor, and other items for their size with the same statistics as normal gear, except that melee weapons have a reach of 0 for them (or a reach 5 feet shorter than normal if they have the reach trait)."
I thought this was a quality of the tiny weapon. So a small axe would have the normal range.
Oh well, halberd hits almost as hard. Plus, becoming large at level 6 negates it anyways.
Build's mostly for fun.
Yah the same player in my last game was actually playing a Gnome Giant instinct Barbarian with a large greatclub and was a bit miffed that it didn't give any extra reach.
Croma, the Barbarian. Use voluntary flaw for 18 STR. Giant instinct Barbarian, and wields an small sized Greataxe in order to ignore the reach penaly.This doesn't work.
Reach: "The normal rule is "Your reach is typically 5 feet, but weapons with the reach trait can extend this."
Tiny: "They can purchase weapons, armor, and other items for their size with the same statistics as normal gear, except that melee weapons have a reach of 0 for them (or a reach 5 feet shorter than normal if they have the reach trait)."
For all greataxes, they add 0 reach to the creatures reach, so tiny has 0[base]+0[greataxe]=0 while small/medium creatures has 5'[base]+0[greataxe]=5'. For a tiny creature to get a 5' reach like small/medium creatures do you need to pick up a reach weapon like a Boarding Pike of a Gill Hook.
So enforcing one restriction over the other, without considering the logic/context of it?
The rule you quote clearly has a limit of "for their size".
A size small greataxe for a sprite has a normal reach of 5 ft.
Regardless when the Sprite becomes size large via Giants Stature. Tiny goes away (they are now large), the great axe becomes huge and they have a reach of 10ft with it.
It works fine
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So enforcing one restriction over the other, without considering the logic for it?
No contradiction here. A small/medium weapon adds EXACTLY the same reach to a tiny, small or medium creature, 0 or 5' for a reach weapon. What restriction did I ignore or didn't enforce?
The rule you quote clearly has a limit of "for their size"
It's clearly for creatures: full stop. To prove you're completely wrong, look up a rune giant once: look at it's greatsword attack and note it has a reach of 20', which is a rune giants normal reach: A tiny great sword and a gargantuan one give the exact same reach even though realistically the logic tells us the weapon itself is far more than 5'. Why would a 10' sword give reach to a smaller creature when it doesn't do so for a larger one?
EDIT: also the rule quote specifically says I'm right: "They can purchase weapons, armor, and other items for their size with the same statistics as normal gear, except that melee weapons have a reach of 0 for them (or a reach 5 feet shorter than normal if they have the reach trait).": that pretty explicitly tells you greatswords have a reach of 0. Looking at larger sized weapons we see that they don't alter reach in ANY way so just follow the nrmal tiny PC rules...
A size small greataxe for a sprite has a normal reach of 5 ft.
Not in any possible way under the rules: weapons in PF2 deal the same damage and give the same reach no matter the size. The same way that rune giant's greatsword deal the same damage, they also give the same reach no matter who uses them. If a rune giant picked up a tiny long spear and for some reason had an ability that allowed them to use it, it's give the giant reach while their own sized greatsword doesn't.
No matter how you look at it, it makes as much logic as anything else with weapons and size: the only thing that changes are conditions for wielding a different size weapon while the weapons stats stay completely the same. If a small creature could somehow manage to wield a huge spear, it still wouldn't give them reach just like it doesn't give it to a huge one. A spear, is a spear, is a spear no matter the size attached.
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Croma, the Barbarian. Use voluntary flaw for 18 STR. Giant instinct Barbarian, and wields an small sized Greataxe in order to ignore the reach penaly.This doesn't work.
Reach: "The normal rule is "Your reach is typically 5 feet, but weapons with the reach trait can extend this."
Tiny: "They can purchase weapons, armor, and other items for their size with the same statistics as normal gear, except that melee weapons have a reach of 0 for them (or a reach 5 feet shorter than normal if they have the reach trait)."
For all greataxes, they add 0 reach to the creatures reach, so tiny has 0[base]+0[greataxe]=0 while small/medium creatures has 5'[base]+0[greataxe]=5'. For a tiny creature to get a 5' reach like small/medium creatures do you need to pick up a reach weapon like a Boarding Pike of a Gill Hook.
So enforcing one restriction over the other, without considering the logic/context of it?
The rule you quote clearly has a limit of "for their size".
A size small greataxe for a sprite has a normal reach of 5 ft.
Regardless when the Sprite becomes size large via Giants Stature. Tiny goes away (they are now large), the great axe becomes huge and they have a reach of 10ft with it.
It works fine
In most cases, Small or Medium creatures can wield a Large weapon, though it’s unwieldy, giving them the clumsy 1 condition, and the larger size is canceled by the difficulty of swinging the weapon, so it grants no special benefit.
I am extrapolating from that that the same thing happens to Tiny characters using weapons that are larger than expected. They would gain the condition Clumsy 1 and no other benefits of the larger size (such as spontaneously adding the reach trait).
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Im playing a Witch sprite undine ( miresoul inspired ).
Winter for primal casting riding a "Ice Corgi" Scent,Indepent, Fast Movement
Spamming Clinging Ice And Eletric Arc.
Level2+ will take beast master dedication to get a bird to lift me from the ground, VERY GRAY area for use it in combat.
And it can support me to strike with ranged spells or attack by itself if the enemy is out of range for clinging ice/resistant to cold
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I am enjoying the debate of rules that has poped up and the continuing of adding more builds.
I have decided with the players approval to go with a Luminous Sprite Lore Oracle with a Bard free archetype based loosely off the concept of Navi and Tatl from Zelda but also with somce classic fairy folklore. So like Navi they will specialize in knowing everything about enemies. They will use their Lore and Knowledge foucs spells to start and get their curse going and than they will use their divine slots for support spells like bless and heal and their occult cantrip telekinetic projectile for damage when needed.
So enforcing one restriction over the other, without considering the logic for it?No contradiction here. A small/medium weapon adds EXACTLY the same reach to a tiny, small or medium creature, 0 or 5' for a reach weapon. What restriction did I ignore or didn't enforce?
The rule you quote clearly has a limit of "for their size"It's clearly for creatures: full stop. To prove you're completely wrong, look up a rune giant once: look at it's greatsword attack and note it has a reach of 20', which is a rune giants normal reach: A tiny great sword and a gargantuan one give the exact same reach even though realistically the logic tells us the weapon itself is far more than 5'. Why would a 10' sword give reach to a smaller creature when it doesn't do so for a larger one?
EDIT: also the rule quote specifically says I'm right: "They can purchase weapons, armor, and other items for their size with the same statistics as normal gear, except that melee weapons have a reach of 0 for them (or a reach 5 feet shorter than normal if they have the reach trait).": that pretty explicitly tells you greatswords have a reach of 0. Looking at larger sized weapons we see that they don't alter reach in ANY way so just follow the nrmal tiny PC rules...
A size small greataxe for a sprite has a normal reach of 5 ft.Not in any possible way under the rules: weapons in PF2 deal the same damage and give the same reach no matter the size. The same way that rune giant's greatsword deal the same damage, they also give the same reach no matter who uses them. If a rune giant picked up a tiny long spear and for some reason had an ability that allowed them to use it, it's give the giant reach while their own sized greatsword doesn't.
No matter how you look at it, it makes as much logic as anything else with weapons and size: the only thing that changes are conditions for wielding a different size weapon while the weapons stats stay completely the same. If a small...
Yeah I get the rules argument. Its not as tight as you say as there are little gaps everywhere, like the one I pointed out. I just find the outcome you are describing so stupid that I prefer to ignore it under the base GM guidelines. The actual length of the weapon should come into it. A size small greatsword or spear might well be almost 5ft long. But it still can't reach into the next square?
Then again the Sprite archer with a really big 10 inch longbow. Has essentailly the same range and damage output as the human with a 7ft tall long bow. The difference comes down to minor Strength differences, which gets swallowed up by all the other effects. If you play with the optional flaws rule, they both do the same. It is more than a bit hard to stomach.
If your GM is a stickler for it then go with the halberd or long spear that have reach.
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I just find the outcome you are describing so stupid that I prefer to ignore it under the base GM guidelines. The actual length of the weapon should come into it. A size small greatsword or spear might well be almost 5ft long. But it still can't reach into the next square?
As for the flavor and description of it, I see it as that while the weapon may have that much length, your tiny character has to choke up on the hilt of the weapon quite a bit in order to be able to swing it at all. At that point, it doesn't have any more reach than a properly sized weapon. It just has this huge handle hanging off the back getting in the way.
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Yeah I get the rules argument. Its not as tight as you say as there are little gaps everywhere, like the one I pointed out. I just find the outcome you are describing so stupid that I prefer to ignore it under the base GM guidelines. The actual length of the weapon should come into it. A size small greatsword or spear might well be almost 5ft long. But it still can't reach into the next square?
Then again the Sprite archer with a really big 10 inch longbow. Has essentailly the same range and damage output as the human with a 7ft tall long bow. The difference comes down to minor Strength differences, which gets swallowed up by all the other effects. If you play with the optional flaws rule, they both do the same. It is more than a bit hard to stomach.
If your GM is a stickler for it then go with the halberd or long spear that have reach.
If your DM thinks it makes sense for weapons to give reach when the weapon normally doesn't then it shouldn't then it should be don't for EVERY creature and weapon. For instance, Combat Grapnel comes with a 10' rope? Sure, give it free reach! A greatsword if as big as the wielder? Well that means my 6'11' barbarian surely gets extra reach! Look at that giant... Surely their weapons are 10 or 20' long. Well SURELY that means they'd get at least a free 10' reach!
Plus then, you have to work in reverse: If a long weapon much give reach then very close weapon should remove it. If a sprite get free reach with a human longsword then why does a human get the same reach with that weapon that someone with a gauntlet does? Does unarmed/natural make sense 5' away instead of being in the same square?
I don't see it as "your GM is a stickler", but your DM understanding that weapon size/descriptions don't matter to the stats: balance does. You do 'what makes sense' and you end up meeting giants with a 40' reach and that some PC should find that they have less than 5' reach with their weapons...
A nektera sprite fighter get sprites spark for sonic damage. Specialize in sling weapon group adopted ancestry halfing grab some titan slinger. Then they can run around saying "pew pew pew pew" and kill things with your finger guns.
Just remember that those 'pew pew' finger guns will only ever have a max range of 20', not range increment.
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Well of course. What self respecting finger gunslinger draws down at high noon at more than 20 paces?A nektera sprite fighter get sprites spark for sonic damage. Specialize in sling weapon group adopted ancestry halfing grab some titan slinger. Then they can run around saying "pew pew pew pew" and kill things with your finger guns.Just remember that those 'pew pew' finger guns will only ever have a max range of 20', not range increment.
When one player in an upcoming PF2 campaign mentioned wanting to play a sprite, I came up with the idea of playing a pixie "giant". He is used to being by far the biggest person around in the sprite community where he grows up, until he meets a fellow party member who towers above him. And he has to look even further up when he meets the non-halfling party members....
Yeah I get the rules argument. Its not as tight as you say as there are little gaps everywhere, like the one I pointed out. I just find the outcome you are describing so stupid that I prefer to ignore it under the base GM guidelines. The actual length of the weapon should come into it. A size small greatsword or spear might well be almost 5ft long. But it still can't reach into the next square?
Then again the Sprite archer with a really big 10 inch longbow. Has essentailly the same range and damage output as the human with a 7ft tall long bow. The difference comes down to minor Strength differences, which gets swallowed up by all the other effects. If you play with the optional flaws rule, they both do the same. It is more than a bit hard to stomach.
If your GM is a stickler for it then go with the halberd or long spear that have reach.
If your DM thinks it makes sense for weapons to give reach when the weapon normally doesn't then it shouldn't then it should be don't for EVERY creature and weapon. For instance, Combat Grapnel comes with a 10' rope? Sure, give it free reach! A greatsword if as big as the wielder? Well that means my 6'11' barbarian surely gets extra reach! Look at that giant... Surely their weapons are 10 or 20' long. Well SURELY that means they'd get at least a free 10' reach!
Plus then, you have to work in reverse: If a long weapon much give reach then very close weapon should remove it. If a sprite get free reach with a human longsword then why does a human get the same reach with that weapon that someone with a gauntlet does? Does unarmed/natural make sense 5' away instead of being in the same square?
I don't see it as "your GM is a stickler", but your DM understanding that weapon size/descriptions don't matter to the stats: balance does. You do 'what makes sense' and you end up meeting giants with a 40' reach and that some PC should find that they have less than 5' reach with their weapons...
Remember, a Small or Medium character has 5' reach with their unarmed attacks. By extension, this also means that any weapon held in a Small or Medium creature's hand must also have at least 5' reach. That gauntlet, for example, is going to have 5' reach unless you cut off its user's arms and make them wear it on their head, because its user's arms themselves have 5' reach. Thus, even if an oversized or long weapon did increase your range, it wouldn't mean that an undersized or close-ranged one decreases it to nothing.
I'm going to play a Sprite Giant Instinct Barbarian in less than one month.
I'm not so sure if the voluntary flaw is the best way to go. If I use it, I would choose Cha and Wis as flaws, getting a:
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 8
I'm usually a DM, and as so I would rule the 0' Reach, as it should be by RAW. So I'll plan fo that. If the actual DM rule otherwise I'll not fight over it.
Until I get the Giant's Stature(level 6) I'm goig to circunvent that reach problem with: 1) Sudden Charge, so I can assure I can get in the enemy's face and hit it; 2) Enlarge Scrolls, so the caster don't have to "waste" his slots on me.
Or I can simply use a Guisarme with reach and trip if those options above don't work as good in play as they seem(to me) to work on paper.
I plan to take those wing feats, just because the image of a 30 cm Barbie doll character flying around with a "giant" weapon is pretty amusing.
Waiting for the new book to come out, but Sprite Gunslinger I will see if it works. Gunslinging fairy on a corgi mount.