Divine Sorcerer picking spells from other lists

[Snorelord]

I'm building a divine Sorcerer for a secondary game when my normal DM can't make it or we are down too many players. I plan on taking champion dedication to get decent armor and hit points. I don't plan on being massively front line, just not fragile.

Help me out, with blessed blood and/or crossblooded, what arcane, primal or occult spells should I consider at each level? Due to grabbing early champion feats I won't be picking up either blessed blood or crossblooded until 8th level, so don't recommend anything that only scales well before then!

I'm totally lost with all the choices. What do you think would work well?

[Kyrone]

Synesthesia is usually the hot spell picked with Crossblooded Evolution.

Cernunnos, Gozreh and Saranrae have nice spells, if evil deities are something that you can pick then Shax, Achaekek and Hei Feng are great.

[Gortle]

So many to choose from:
Dinosaur Form
Dimension Door
Phantasmal Killer
Illusionary Creature

Don't forget that you can retrain it to something else later like
Contingency
Time Beacon

[Snorelord]

Thanks for the suggestions! Some spells are jumping out at me that I recognise from first edition or just have a good name. Are any of these particularly useful this edition, and if so which ones do you think would benefit a divine Sorcerer most and why?

Black Tentacles
Blink
Contingency
Dimension Door
Disjunction
Dominate
Invisibility
Lightning Bolt
Magic Missile
Mirror Image
Paralyze
Spell Turning
Wall of force
Warp Mind

The 8th+ level spells are higher level than i'll likely see on this character so factor that in to your considerations... If you can rate them all that would be even better, but I understand that's probably asking too much!

[HumbleGamer]

Kyrone wrote:

Synesthesia is usually the hot spell picked with Crossblooded Evolution.

This one.

Snorelord wrote:

Thanks for the suggestions! Some spells are jumping out at me that I recognise from first edition or just have a good name. Are any of these particularly useful this edition, and if so which ones do you think would benefit a divine Sorcerer most and why?

Black Tentacles
Blink
Contingency
Dimension Door
Disjunction
Dominate
Invisibility
Lightning Bolt
Magic Missile
Mirror Image
Paralyze
Spell Turning
Wall of force
Warp Mind

The 8th+ level spells are higher level than i'll likely see on this character so factor that in to your considerations... If you can rate them all that would be even better, but I understand that's probably asking too much!

Keep in mind to look for the "incapacitation" trait

For example, Paralyze and Dominate have it.

Mirror image is always good in my opinion.

Blink is excellent for a champion/monk who takes it through dedication, but I wouldn't use it on non frontline characters because you randomly blink at the end of your turn ( you could find yourself within the enemy reach ).

Contingency has been finally tuned down ( It requires a lvl 9 or 10 spell to cast the lower versions of teleport ) and it's more a combat oriented spell. Always worth its cost imo, but no longer "that" unbalanced.

Magic Missile is always nice to have as a signature spell, if you don't know what else to take.

[Watery Soup]

Is heightened invisibility useful past a few levels, or does every monster end up with some way of detecting invisibility?

[Snorelord]

Watery Soup wrote:

Is heightened invisibility useful past a few levels, or does every monster end up with some way of detecting invisibility?

I'd also like to know.

[Kyrone]

Only Fiends usually have true sight, some outsiders might have it but is not as common as Fiends.

[Unicore]

Bizarrely, True seeing has to counteract invisibility, making higher level invisibility effective against it. While the second level "see invisibililty lets you see invisible creatures regardless of the level of the spell. However, Invisibility still gives you concealment so it is not that bad. It lets you use the hide action against the target, which is very effective if you have a decent stealth skill.

[Watery Soup]

Unicore wrote:

It lets you use the hide action against the target

I am skeptical (as in I would like to see something definitive) about this, even though admittedly, I just searched the rules and could not find any counterevidence.

There are several spells/conditions that specify that one can not use the granted concealment to Hide, e.g., Blur. One way to interpret this is that because Invisibility doesn't contain the same language, Invisibility allows something Blur doesn't. The other way would be to note that the explicit rationale in Blur - that although mechanically concealed, Hide is impossible because they remain observed - also applies to Invisibility.

I'll start a separate thread in Rules if the discussion is long.

[The Raven Black]

The general rule is that you can hide when concealed. Blur is the specific rule that the concealment it grants cannot be used to hide, as opposed to the general rule. Since See Invisibility has no such clause, the general rule applies : you can hide when concealed.

[Unicore]

I mean, a 2nd level spell that counters all higher level invisibility is pretty powerful as is.

[HumbleGamer]

Unicore wrote:

I mean, a 2nd level spell that counters all higher level invisibility is pretty powerful as is.

Well, it only allows the caster to better deal with them, making them concealed instead of hidden.

So, assuming your wizard is using see invisiblity, he would be able to direct the fighter and the rogue to the hidden creature ( the creature would still be hidden to them), while still having to get a dc5 flat check in order to hit the enemy with its ray of frost.

Pretty fair imo.

Instead, if you want to deal with the invisibility spell in a permanent way you will have to cast a dispel magic and get a success ( or a critical success, depends the spell level).

So a lvl 2 for the base invisibility, a lvl 4 for the heightened one, or ( not sure if this is possible) a higher one if the caster cast it with an even higher spell slot.