How would you convert Fiery Shuriken to 2e

[Davido1000]

I've been trying my hand at converting classic 1e spells over to 2e to fill in some holes in the spell lists. One of my players is playing an arcane trickster so what better spell to convert over than Fiery Shuriken. However i am at a loss on how i should do it. I want it to utilize the rogue's sneak attack as it did best in 1e but also not be as horribly broken, anyone got any ideas?

[HumbleGamer]

Sneak attack is available by lvl 1 for an eldritch trickster spells/cantrips/focus powers, which means that given the flat footed condition an eldritch trickster would be able to make a sneak attack with either weapons and spells.

As for the spell, the most similar spell I could find is the focus power Draconic Barrage.

Given the spell damage progression in this 2e, would be imo easier to let go the fiery shuriken part which says

Quote:

you can launch some or all of them at the same target or different targets

Every attack has already a good damage and requires a single action, so the rogue will be given not only a good damage, but also an excellent action economy ( apart from the round you cast it, it's an action x round to throw a shuriken ).

As for the damage, I am not sure.
The rng on the domain spell is really cool, and while it's true that you might find some enemies immune or resistant to specific elements, so could be the same for piercing/slashing damage. Also, different elements would mean more chances to trigger vulnerabilities.

I'd leave it rng as the focus spell ( maybe changing the name into "Chaos Shuriken" or something similar".

Finally, but probably more important, its accessibility.
It's not a case that a very strong focus spell is given to the weaker spellcaster in terms of offensive stuff ( which includes either blasting and controlling ), so instead of giving it for free I'd let him expend a class feat ( lvl 4 class feat as any other "Basic" feat, obviously ) in order to unlock it.

[Davido1000]

That is actually the very kind of spell i was thinking of. Ill have to think about it being a feat or a normal spell that's weakened a tad.

If i were to weaken it to a normal spell i would cut the range to 30 ft and knock the damage to 1d4+spell mod fire damage.

[HumbleGamer]

Davido1000 wrote:

That is actually the very kind of spell i was thinking of. Ill have to think about it being a feat or a normal spell that's weakened a tad.

If i were to weaken it to a normal spell i would cut the range to 30 ft and knock the damage to 1d4+spell mod fire damage.

I say that seems pretty balanced.

If you don't mind, keep me ( either this thread or a pm ) updated since I am very curious to see how the spell is going to perform ;)

[Davido1000]

Here is the write up:

Fiery Shuriken — Spell 2
Conjuration, Fire
Traditions Arcane
Cast Two actions - Somatic, Verbal
Range 30 feet; Target self
Duration 1 minute

You call forth two fiery projectiles resembling shuriken which hover in front of you. While the spell persists, you can command one of your shuriken to fire at a creature within 30 feet by using a single action, which has the concentrate trait. This is a ranged Strike that uses your spell attack bonus and deals 2d4 damage plus your spellcasting ability modifier fire damage. A shuriken Strike uses and contributes to your multiple attack penalty. Once a shuriken has been used, it winks out of existence; when you have no shuriken remaining, the spell ends.

Heightened (+1) You call 1 additional shuriken, and the Strike damage increases by 1d4.

[AnimatedPaper]

As you're conjuring the items, you don't need either the range or target for this spell. The actions and duration is sufficient.

Great job though. Very cool.

[Davido1000]

AnimatedPaper wrote:

As you're conjuring the items, you don't need either the range or target for this spell. The actions and duration is sufficient.

Great job though. Very cool.

Thanks for the advice! ill change that now.

[breithauptclan]

I'm seeing this as a direct competitor to Flaming Sphere - which has d6 as its damage die size. It starts at 3d6 at level 2 and gains another die each level. It also lasts for a minute, but does require an action each round to sustain.

So for the tradeoff of not having to sustain the spell each round, this only does d4 for its damage die and has fewer times that it can be used. You start with two rounds worth of shurikens available and it goes up by one each spell level that it increases by.

So for a normal wizard, it is rather lacking in comparison to Flaming Sphere. For an arcane trickster being able to use sneak attack damage with it, it might be viable.

[breithauptclan]

For an arcane trickster, the other spell that this is directly competing with is Produce Flame.

Produce Flame also has a spell attack at 30 ft range. It also does d4 for damage die size.

On comparison, your Fiery Shuriken is doing the same amount of damage, but with less action cost on subsequent rounds.

So yeah, A normal wizard might just stick with Produce Flame. Once they run out of Flaming Sphere castings. An arcane trickster rogue might find value in this.

Which is a hallmark of a good balanced spell.

[Squiggit]

breithauptclan wrote:

So for the tradeoff of not having to sustain the spell each round

You still have to spend actions to activate it though, so that's not really an advantage.

As you pointed out, it's pretty much just flaming sphere with a worse damage die and a limited number of uses... also just a weaker version of draconic barrage, even though barrage is a focus spell.

Yeah, it's better than produce flame, but produce flame is a cantrip, so that's not a great comparison point.

[Davido1000]

Squiggit wrote:

breithauptclan wrote:

So for the tradeoff of not having to sustain the spell each round

You still have to spend actions to activate it though, so that's not really an advantage.

As you pointed out, it's pretty much just flaming sphere with a worse damage die and a limited number of uses... also just a weaker version of draconic barrage, even though barrage is a focus spell.

Yeah, it's better than produce flame, but produce flame is a cantrip, so that's not a great comparison point.

Flaming sphere is a saving throw spell and the point of this spell in my mind is to allow arcane trickster access to a spell that works with its spell sneak attack. Flaming sphere cant do this and draconic barrage is limited to a focus spell.