Can a pixie archer carry 100 tiny arrows, and if so, how much of the pixie's bulk capacity does it use up?
Been having some trouble wrapping my head around the bulk conversation rules since Light bulk doesn't appear to exist for Tiny characters.
For tiny size objects, light bulk should become negligible. At least this is how I understood the various tables.
Can a pixie archer carry 100 tiny arrows, and if so, how much of the pixie's bulk capacity does it use up?
10 bulk.
Why dont they just come out and say that negligible and light are the same, rather than "negligible is still negligible, but is treated as light, and light becomes undefined?"
So at what point in the order of operations do you apply the bulk size adjustment to arrows?
Do you say each tiny arrow has negligible bulk and so 10 negligible items = 1 bulk for a pixie?
OR
Since arrow bulk is only counted for sets of 10, a set of 10 tiny arrows is light bulk (1 bulk reduced one step for being tiny)?
Do you say each tiny arrow has negligible bulk and so 10 negligible items = 1 bulk for a pixie?
OR
Since arrow bulk is only counted for sets of 10, a set of 10 tiny arrows is light bulk (1 bulk reduced one step for being tiny)?
Yes, both are correct. It's like bags of 999 coins are negligible weight so you have 2, it's 2 negligible bulk items but if you put the coins in the same bag, those 1998 coins are 1 bulk. ;)
Yes, both are correct. It's like bags of 999 coins are negligible weight so you have 2, it's 2 negligible bulk items but if you put the coins in the same bag, those 1998 coins are 1 bulk. ;)Do you say each tiny arrow has negligible bulk and so 10 negligible items = 1 bulk for a pixie?
OR
Since arrow bulk is only counted for sets of 10, a set of 10 tiny arrows is light bulk (1 bulk reduced one step for being tiny)?
I will now carry coins this way from now on so I can cheese bulk limitations.
Thanks shroudb, that's about as far as I got on my own I think.
Yes, both are correct.
What? How is that possible? Now I'm even more confused.
It's like bags of 999 coins are negligible weight so you have 2, it's 2 negligible bulk items but if you put the coins in the same bag, those 1998 coins are 1 bulk. ;)
Oh, so you're just being facetious while demonstrating that it's the first one because the logic of the second leads to absurd, nonsensical abuses?
I don't think bulk is counted by how many coins are in a bag, or arrows in a quiver, but by how many are carried by the character. In any case, I'm not asking about when to apply bulk, but when to apply the conversion, as it can lead to very different results, depending whether you treat bundled items as a single object or as several objects for the purposes of bulk.
Yes, both are correct.What? How is that possible? Now I'm even more confused.
It's like bags of 999 coins are negligible weight so you have 2, it's 2 negligible bulk items but if you put the coins in the same bag, those 1998 coins are 1 bulk. ;)Oh, so you're just being facetious while demonstrating that it's the first one because the logic of the second leads to absurd, nonsensical abuses?
Facetious? Not at all. I'm pointing out that both are correct and further pointed out that this isn't the first time something like this has happened. How you wish to run it is up to you or your DM as, once again, both answers are correct. Think of it like 2X-1 = 7: there are multiple correct answers, 3 and -3. What we're dealing with is the order of operation altering the end result and the existing rules not stating which order is correct leading to 2 correct answers.
I don't think bulk is counted by how many coins are in a bag, or arrows in a quiver, but by how many are carried by the character.
That's one way to do it but it's never stated it's the correct way: So if that's the one that makes sense to you, you can do so and it'll be correct.
PS: as to logic, neither makes a whole lot of sense: take a large creature, like a horse. You can put as many dagger on your horse as you want as they are Negligible. So 10 don't impact the horse at all. Now a bag of 10 daggers is Light, the same bulk as a longsword so everything is good so far. Now take an item that's twice as bulky as that longsword a human, a greatsword: it somehow becomes x10 as bulky for the Large creature [1 bulk] instead. The point is, don't try to logically work out bulk as it's an act of futility. Just shrug your shoulders and go with it. :P
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Yes, both are correct.What? How is that possible? Now I'm even more confused.
It's like bags of 999 coins are negligible weight so you have 2, it's 2 negligible bulk items but if you put the coins in the same bag, those 1998 coins are 1 bulk. ;)Oh, so you're just being facetious while demonstrating that it's the first one because the logic of the second leads to absurd, nonsensical abuses?Facetious? Not at all. I'm pointing out that both are correct and further pointed out that this isn't the first time something like this has happened. How you wish to run it is up to you or your DM as, once again, both answers are correct. Think of it like 2X-1 = 7: there are multiple correct answers, 3 and -3. What we're dealing with is the order of operation altering the end result and the existing rules not stating which order is correct leading to 2 correct answers.
I don't think bulk is counted by how many coins are in a bag, or arrows in a quiver, but by how many are carried by the character.That's one way to do it but it's never stated it's the correct way: So if that's the one that makes sense to you, you can do so and it'll be correct.
PS: as to logic, neither makes a whole lot of sense: take a large creature, like a horse. You can put as many dagger on your horse as you want as they are Negligible. So 10 don't impact the horse at all. Now a bag of 10 daggers is Light, the same bulk as a longsword so everything is good so far. Now take an item that's twice as bulky as that longsword a human, a greatsword: it somehow becomes x10 as bulky for the Large creature [1 bulk] instead. The point is, don't try to logically work out bulk as it's an act of futility. Just shrug your shoulders and go with it. :P
That math example doesn't make any sense because 2(3) - 1 = 5, and 2(-3) - 1 = -7, neither match the equation you set out to solve.
That being said, this gets to the heart of the problem, as order of operations matters, and the rules don't tell us which one(s) to use.
I think he want to do something like x²-2=7. Where's 3 and -3 solves.
I think he want to do something like x²-2=7. Where's 3 and -3 solves.
Correct. I'm not sure how it ended up with what was in that post. ;)
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Why dont they just come out and say that negligible and light are the same, rather than "negligible is still negligible, but is treated as light, and light becomes undefined?"
Sometimes the sprite might need to carry items other than their own gear. Sometimes other characters might need to carry the sprite's gear.
It works out approximately the same, but just leaving it at that leaves a lot of unanswered questions.
Sprites using the same Bulk system as everybody else answers them, even if it requires both rules for Tiny gear and rules for a Tiny character's Bulk limit--and neither is terribly complicated, anyway.
Yes, both are correct. It's like bags of 999 coins are negligible weight so you have 2, it's 2 negligible bulk items but if you put the coins in the same bag, those 1998 coins are 1 bulk. ;)
Since when is Bulk per container? That's just 1998 coins.
Since when is Bulk per container?
Since when isn't it? It's as correct as removing items from a container to count bulk.
That's just 1998 coins.
Sure you can do that... But where does it say that's what you do? Again, the game never tells you what the order of operation is for bulk calculations.
Let me ask you something. If you picked up someone's backpack, would you add together each and every items from the pack and recalculate or would you take the bulk total for the backpack and add it to your equipment bulk? Myself, I'd take the already calculated total and simply add the 2 numbers: That's the reason I wouldn't expect someone to do something different when the containers hold coins.