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Hi there,
I'm currently playing in a three player (Cleric/Summoner (UC - Ranged Eidolon)) Jade Regent AP group and playing a Half-Orc Druid (Bear Shaman).
Were are level 5 now and over the time my character took the role of the front row heavy hitter (Greataxe ftw) and guardian (especially toward Ameiko^^).
So I would love to lean more into this and currently looking for a cross-class or prestige class option which support this theme. As our DM is open to basic retraining (if it fits the character story) the prequisits shouldn't be a problem.
What I would like to get from this cross/prestige class is:
- Full BAB
- Intimidate as class skill (even without having skillpoints in this skill, my character is always the "Intimidator" in the group...)
- NO additional overly-complex abilities to track (I'm a friend of flat boni^^)
- Best would be if it creats some synergies with the druid class
The Nature Warden was on my list (as it would fit thematically and with the boni, but it doesn't have full BAB and I would need to crossclass into Ranger first... :(
Anyone of you have a suggestion?
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Just found the "Warden" archetype of the ranger which would allow to move into Nature Warden with only one level dip into ranger.
This would also allow me to progress in my spells and my animal companion (loosing one level for the animal companion and two for my spell progress).
Making me finally:
Bear Shaman 5 / Ranger (Warden) 1 / Natural Warden X+
While I think this would fit thematically I'm not sure if the tradeoff is worth this route
Nature warden is a fairly weak and unfocused PrC, I don't recommend it. Actually I'm not at all sure you want a PrC, druids have a lot of class features and are going to lose something with any PrC.
If you're willing to stop advancing spellcasting and your GM allows it to work with a bear companion (I assume) then the mammoth rider PrC works.
With a dip into cleric you could go into the holy vindicator PrC. This stops advancing your companion. The boon companion feat helps for 4 levels.
If you're willing to retrain into something like the hunter class you might be better in melee. That's a little complex though and you said you didn't want that.
It might be best to stay a druid and just spend a feat on becoming better with intimidate (skill focus or additional traits). With a cleric buffing you and maybe a summoner debuffing enemies BAB shouldn't be a big problem, and it's certainly going to be the simplest.
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Thanks for the tip.
I agree that the Nature Warden is a really not optimal PrC, I think making it Full BAB and skipp every ood spellcaster level would be more in line with the description.
Also my DM don't allow a complete retrain, just for class abilities if it fits the story/character development.
Anyway I did some calculation and if I use the "fractual base bonus" rules from the Unchained book (which should really be standard) and take a one level dip into the Ranger (Warden) before going into the Nature Waren, it should be a feasabile build.
From the BAB/Saves side I will end up like a druid, I will loose one level for my animal companion (which is a Grizzly and is already strong) and two spell levels (I mostly use my spells to buff myself).
Also I didn't really rely on wildshape for combat (i mainly use it for scouting/fast travel). Instead I use my Totem Transformation, my Greataxe and Animal Companion.
So I think this would be a option for me... (not 100% sure yet)
I found that a straight bear shaman can be a good front line fighter. you'll soon be able to change into an earth elemental which is awesome. Get some decent armor with the wildshape property (Add hosteling just for a place to put your animal companion), so your armor will still help your AC. Pick up the feat that lets you cast spells and the other feat that lets you access your spell components so you can still cast while wild shaped and then start summoning more elementals. I once had My character as a greater elemental, plus 8 more large elementals on the battelfield at once. If that's not a good "frontline" then I don't know what is.
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As I said, I'm not so into "combat wild shape" and also the wild armor ability is +4, which make your armor at least +5 (which costs a ton of gold) and we are only level 5 yet. So this is nothing I think about yet. ;)
Also with a summoner & a cleric we already have more then enough summons on the battlefield. ;)
As I said, I'm not so into "combat wild shape" and also the wild armor ability is +4, which make your armor at least +5 (which costs a ton of gold) and we are only level 5 yet. So this is nothing I think about yet. ;)
Also with a summoner & a cleric we already have more then enough summons on the battlefield. ;)
It's a +3 bonus.... but I understand your issue
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-armor/magic-armor-and-shield-spe cial-abilities/wild
over the time my character took the role of the front row heavy hitter (...) So I would love to lean more into this
If you want to be a "front row heavy hitter", your by far best bet is to stay in class and polymorph into something with pounce. The archetype is actually a notable hinderance to that, as bears just aren't good, but at 8th level, you can turn into a Dire Tiger, and at 10th level, into Allosaurus. Both levels are reduced by 2 if you can retrain out of the archetype.
Prestige classes are pretty bad in Pathfinder, especially if you want multiple different things. There's but a single prestige class that a single-class Druid qualifies for that has both full BAB and advanced spellcasting at least partially (Scar Seeker), and you also want to advance the companion...
Although I must say, I think you're overrating BAB.
Also I didn't really rely on wildshape for combat (i mainly use it for scouting/fast travel). Instead I use my Totem Transformation, my Greataxe and Animal Companion.
Is that a stylistic choice, of have you simply not yet seen how powerful Wild Shape can be? Turning into an animal with pounce skyrockets a Druid's damage. Barding equipped after turning into the animal takes care of the armor issue, and once you have enough uses of WS, Planar Wild Shape increases various defenses (and offense).
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@TxSam88 - my bad, but even +3 is out of my reach so far (and I don't know if we get the chance to buy a "wild" armor in the JR Campaign).
So far I have a +1 Dragonhide Breastplate and am happy with it. :D
@Derklord:
I'm aware how powerfull wildshape can be (we had a Gnome Druide/dire Tiger in my first PF Campaign^^), but it's more a stylistic choice for me. ;) This is btw also one reason why I choosed the bear shamane, because I like the idea of Totem Transformation (transforming in some sort of hybrid human-animal).
Also the "Protector" aspect of "Father bear" was appealing to me (yeah it's more about roleplay for me then perfect optimization^^).
As our Level-up is on the horizon (possible next session) I took a close look into my characters further development and realized that I will be able to wild shape in a f... HUGE Grizlly at level 6 oO
So I will stay with the Druid at least for the next level and then time will tell. :)
Seriously, look at when you can wild shape into an earth elemental... once you try that, being a grizzly just isn't the same...
Agreed. Especially since elementals are described as often taking on the shapes of such things.
A friend of mine wanted to start out as a fighter and get into druid after a few levels, and I have to say, it looks really fun. Grab the two feats to help Wildshape and Animal Companion, then enjoy being a bear with Improved Grapple and Greater Sunder.
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We finally hit level 6 and I was able to make use of my wild shape ability for the first time.. and it was hillarious/awesome/total OP.
MY DM allowed me to turn into a huge bear (otherwise the "wildshape changes" for animal shamans wouldn't be that usefull).
We were encountered by four ninja-monks (Jade Regent AP), I used wild shape in the first round and started to tear through the enemies - (3 attacks, each with a +8 attack and +10 damage and if they survived this two free grab attempts with a CMD of ~13).
So the fight was over very quickly and I think my DM is silently hating me now...
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The Huge comes from the Bear Shamane Archetype. One of it's abilities stated that wildshape function as 2 level highers if I tranform into a bear (and two levels lower for everything else). Which means my level 6 druid count as level 8 when transforming into a bear. And at level 8 druids can wildshape into huge animals.
And yes the fact that my wildshape will not improve anymore is a real issue for me. Especially considerring that I count as Level -2 for elemental, magic beast, plant etc. wildshape. :(
Would love to see some scaling on the animal side of wild shape (like increased attr. bonus or a selection special abilities from elementals/magical beasts/plants).
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Dire animals are considered animals and are valid forms for wild shape, unfortunately even dire (polar) bears are only large according to the bestiary (https://www.aonprd.com/MonsterDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Dire%20Polar%20Bear)
There is a entry of a giant dire polar bear on d20pfsrd but it's not official and it also uses the giant template (something beast shape didn't allow (using templates)).
Luckily you can always speak with your DM and figure out some house rules, that's how I get the ok from my DM to transform into a huge bear. :D
Not sure if it was here, or another similiar thread, but someone had mentioned that bears don't get to huge. I thought that was wrong, but can't find the post to discuss it.
You mean this post. However, there is really no point arguing it - you can't make your own forms for polymorph, you have to use a published form, and there simply are no huge sized bears in any Paizo book. All the bears in the Bestiaries are large; there're medium and small sized bears in PFS modules, but no huge ones.
Considering that even with a custom huge size bear form the archetype is still a significant downgrade compared to vanilla Druid, the GM absolutely made the right call allowing that. Sadly, Paizo was really not good at balancing different animals or animal forms for PC use, with big cats and dinosaurs being miles ahead of anything else.
The underlying issue as actually the completely f@$&ed up combat system that only knows "move and single attack" and "full attack", with naught in between. A PC wildshaped into an ordinary animal with 3 primary attacks (pretty common), like a bear, loses ~70% of their damage (with Haste, ~60% without), and some of the best feats for increasing such a character's damage widen that gap even further (Mutated Shape and Chaos Reigns, with both, the loss is ~80%).
The lists of transfered abilities in the Beast Shape and other polymorph spells (and in the animal companion list) make it look as if pounce was one ability among many, but no other ability plays even in the same league when it comes to the effect on damage.
Or, as I like to put it: Pounce reigns surpreme!