Ebb and Flow

[HumbleGamer]

Quote:

You can pull forth both positive and negative energy simultaneously to harm your enemies and heal your allies. If your next action is to cast a 1-action or 2-action heal or harm spell, choose one creature in range that would be harmed by the spell, and choose another creature within range that would be healed by the spell. Your heal or harm targets both creatures.

So, I expend either a heal or harm slot ( which has not to necessarily be from the Cleric Font ) in order to cast that both spells.

For example, a lvl 11 Cleric might use 1 action to trigger Ebb and Flow, then cast a lvl 5 heal from his spells ( regardless it's from base spells or font ) and apply a lvl heal effect on a creature and a lvl 5 harm on another one.

Am I reading this the correct way?

[Castilliano]

I think the ability as written is rather quirky and could be read too many ways.

A. If focused on the mechanics mentioned; You cast Heal. Then you check for creatures in range, choosing one creature that would be harmed by it (so an undead) and another that would be healed by it (so a living creature) and then the spell does its business. Quite limiting.
OR
B. Because of the first sentence saying you pull forth positive and negative energy simultaneously; you cast Heal (or Harm) and get the simultaneous opposite effect at the same time Heal => Harm and vice-versa. The you target with those two effects as mentioned.
In this case, then you could only targets that match, as in two living or two undead because you're getting one negative energy effect and one positive energy effect...which would be odd too.
OR
C. It's badly phrased. You cast Heal and simply blast one target (w/ whichever energy harms them) and heal another target (w/ whichever energy heals them). This leads to the odd situation where you might use a Heal to get two negative energy effects (to heal your Dhampir ally and harm a living opponent). While that's one way to read the directions, that'd defy the first sentence saying what's occurring re: energies.

None seem satisfactory IMO, though B seems to capture the spirit of its description: always one negative energy effect and one positive, like the contrast of ebbing & flowing, as in Ebb and Flow.

[HumbleGamer]

If it can help, it requires the Versatile Font.

So it probably involves either harm and heal in the same time ( which is something meant for a versatile font build ).

In adjunct, cleric also have a "similar" feat by lvl 18.

Echoing Channel

Quote:

When you pull forth positive or negative energy, you also create a smaller pocket of that energy. If the next action you use is to cast a 2-action harm or heal to heal or damage a single creature, choose one additional creature adjacent to either you or the target. Target that creature with a 1-action version of the same spell. This spell is the same level as the 2-action harm or heal you cast and doesn’t cost another spell slot.

C seems the right one to me ( you cast heal on one creature, and harm on the other one ). Obviously, as you mentioned, it can happen that the target of the harm spell might be healed instead. But we have to remember it's a CRB feat.

[Megistone]

RAW is rather clear to me, and interpretation A seems correct.

I really don't think that Ebb and Flow is intended to let you double the healing or harming done by a single spell.

[SuperBidi]

Yes, per RAW it's A.
The first sentence is, as often, fluff text and should be ignored.

[Captain Morgan]

So it is basically a way to maintain some damage output while also healing a target. Seems decent on a dhampir.

[The Raven Black]

A. Your spell gets to target 2 different creatures but there is a restriction on targets. It will heal one and harm the other.

[Claxon]

Definitely A. It's not amazing, as it wont come up that often that you have creatures in range that one would be healed and the other harmed by casting heal(or harm).

If heal it basically demands you fight undead. If harm, it demands you be healed by negative energy. That second one might work out pretty well if you play a dhampir but that's a pretty narrow scope.

[demon321x2]

I think the flavor text doesn't match what the ability actually does.

>You can pull forth both positive and negative energy simultaneously to harm your enemies and heal your allies.

Is just flavor text with no mechanical effect.

>If your next action is to cast a 1-action or 2-action heal or harm spell, choose one creature in range that would be harmed by the spell, and choose another creature within range that would be healed by the spell. Your heal or harm targets both creatures.

The rest seems clear to me. If you cast a heal/harm spell you can target one creature who would be healed by the spell and one who would be harmed (these are not referencing the spells, but just the regular meanings of heal and harm since harm is never referenced in heal and vice versa) by the spell. So one undead and one living creature. And then the same spell hits them both.

So it's not you use both positive and negative energy simultaneously, but you use the same energy for both effects.

[Megistone]

Also, if the feat was intended differently, it would probably be written in a clearer way, something like: "If your next action is to cast a 1-action or 2-action heal or harm spell, you also cast the other spell for free on a different target".

[Ubertron_X]

Claxon wrote:

If heal it basically demands you fight undead.

Depending on campaign, setting and level range Holy Castigation may be of help here if you are able to access it.

[Claxon]

Ubertron_X wrote:

Claxon wrote:

If heal it basically demands you fight undead.

Depending on campaign, setting and level range Holy Castigation may be of help here if you are able to access it.

That would help some, but still pretty campaign dependent. Like, it's almost guaranteed you will fight evil outsider and undead in an campaign at some point, but they are likely to be a minority of encounters unless that's the focus of the camapaign.

So the overall viability can range from super good, to almost worthless.

[Philo Pharynx]

Sorry about the necromancy, but this came up in my game.

Frankly, I expect that it's A, because B and C are amazing for a 14th level feat. Font-centric clerics will have 5 to 6 spells at max level that provide at least 7d8+56 healing and the same amount of damage. d10's if they have healing and/or harming hands. Plus they can add extra slots of heal or harm to do more.

This essentially doubles the spells in the font and lets you get four actions for two. That would be a great capstone or work if they had the spell go off at a lower level.

Echoed Channel at 18 gets you a free 1-action version of the spell with a 2-action and they have to be adjacent to you or a target. This is four levels higher and only gets you get three actions for two.

So save this one for the dhampir party or the Return of the Whispering Tyrant campaign.

[Castilliano]

Philo Pharynx wrote:

Sorry about the necromancy, but this came up in my game.

Frankly, I expect that it's A, because B and C are amazing for a 14th level feat. Font-centric clerics will have 5 to 6 spells at max level that provide at least 7d8+56 healing and the same amount of damage. d10's if they have healing and/or harming hands. Plus they can add extra slots of heal or harm to do more.

This essentially doubles the spells in the font and lets you get four actions for two. That would be a great capstone or work if they had the spell go off at a lower level.

Echoed Channel at 18 gets you a free 1-action version of the spell with a 2-action and they have to be adjacent to you or a target. This is four levels higher and only gets you get three actions for two.

So save this one for the dhampir party or the Return of the Whispering Tyrant campaign.

Well, it's definitely not "the same amount of damage" as healed because the flat bonus (+56 in the example) only applies when restoring hit points, not on offense. That's a major difference if you're restoring hit points or damaging an enemy. It also makes a large difference if you do have a PC w/ Negative Healing like a Dhampir because you can hit them plus a regular PC for double the effect, including that +56.