How long does it last a coated weapon or ammunition?
I know that after you strike with it the poison is gone ( or on a critical failure, talking about a melee weapon ), but I am talking about preparations.
I was thinking about a Toxicologist alchemist.
He is able to apply poison with just 1 action instead of 2, which is great, but would he be allowed to cover his weapons before the combat?
For example, During a short break he manages to cover with poison his 2 daggers and 3 darts. How long the poison will last on them? is there some sort of duration after which the applied poison expire?
...
Also, I don't see any requirements for "quick alchemy" in terms of hands. Have I to have either hands free or just one would be enough?
for his infused poisons, end of day.
for his perpetual poisons end of turn.
so yes, you can spent a few actions after each combat and coat yours, and your party's (if they wish to) weapons with poisons and they will last until next combat/end of day.
shroudb wrote: for his infused poisons, end of day.
for his perpetual poisons end of turn.
so yes, you can spent a few actions after each combat and coat yours, and your party's (if they wish to) weapons with poisons and they will last until next combat/end of day.
Thanks
Another quick one:
I don't see any requirements for "quick alchemy" in terms of hands. Have I to have either hands free or just one would be enough?
just as many hands as items you want to make (in order to actually get the item in hand)
so if you use quick alchemy to create 1 item, you need 1 hand free.
if you use quick alchemy to create 2 items (at later levels where you can do so) you need 2 hands, and etc.
shroudb wrote: for his infused poisons, end of day.
for his perpetual poisons end of turn.
so yes, you can spent a few actions after each combat and coat yours, and your party's (if they wish to) weapons with poisons and they will last until next combat/end of day.
Other questions came up
First question
Infusion trait says
Quote: You created an alchemical item with the infused trait using your infused reagents, and it has a limited time before it becomes inert. Any nonpermanent effects from your infused alchemical items, with the exception of afflictions such as slow-acting poisons, end when you make your daily preparations again. and quick alchemy says
Quote: You swiftly mix up a short-lived alchemical item to use at a moment's notice. You create a single alchemical item of your advanced alchemy level or lower that's in your formula book without having to spend the normal monetary cost in alchemical reagents or needing to attempt a Crafting check. This item has the infused trait, but it remains potent only until the start of your next turn. So, here's the question:
How the "potent" part work for all items?
For example, an elixir of life will be drinked, restoring hp and gg.
What about permanent effects?
1) If I drink an elixir with duration ( any mutagenist elixir ), will the potent make it last just 1 round or once "used" you get the effect for its duration?
2) If so, would be the same for a poison? ( 1 action to create a poison and 2 actions to apply it to a weapon. so you are out of actions )
Second question
By using "double brew" or let's simply say "alchemical alacrity", how is an alchemist supposed to deal with 3 temporary alchemical items? Considering either hands free, he might consider using each of them with 1 action each, but what about "Alchemical Alacrity"?
Out of 3 action you expend 1 to create 3 items, and then you have 2 actions left to use 3 alchemical items before the start of your next turn. It seems a feat which forces you to take enduring alchemy ( which makes you save alchemical items created with quick alchemy 1 more round ).
Am I missing anything or there's something wrong with a base perk?
Third question
Still on Double Brew and Alchemical alacrity.
Is an alchemist supposed to benefit from them also for its perpetual infusions, isn't it?
It talks about batch.
The items requires a batch to be created.
You can forgo the batches if they are perpetual infusions.
So you won't be using a batch ( which might be a problem given the description, but on the other hand having that perk not working with perpetual infusions might be senseless ).
How would you interpretate it?
Fourth Question
Sticky poison feat
[quoteA combination of additional viscosity and careful application keeps your weapons poisoned even when suffering significant wear and tear. If your Strike with a poisoned weapon would expend its poison without your target attempting an initial save (due to resistance or your Strike being a critical failure, for example), attempt a DC 5 flat check. On a success, your weapon remains poisoned. If your Strike with a poisoned weapon succeeds, attempt a DC 17 flat check. On a success, your weapon remains poisoned until the end of your next turn. Given the way it's written, is it just me or seems that you might be able to activate i over and over if you keep rolling 17+?
Fifth Question
Is poison a persistant damage?
Or does it simply work in a similar way?
Poison > TS > Failure ( for example ) > Stage 1 > Suffer the effects of Stage 1 ( in that same moment ) > Past stage 1, additional damage will be after a failed ( or successful, depends the poison stage ) saving throw, at the end of a player's turn.
Is this right?
1)
it depends when you think a poison is "used". If you rule that it is used on application to the weapon, then yes. But then you run to the problem of making all the infused poisons as well persist throughtout days, weeks, and months. Given time, an alchemist can basically double up on reagents, which seems contrary to the spirit of the rules.
so, i personally rule that "used" for poisons is when the poison is triggered, not when the poison is applied to something.
for elixirs it is similarly when you drink it and apply its effects.
2)
alacrity is useless exactly due to what you said. they even changed the rule in the latest errata, so the 3rd item is automatically stowed, but that is just negative actions compared to simply always using double brew. So just pretend that alacrity doesn't exist (or better yet, ask your GM to houserule it)
3)
per strict RAW, no. Double brew/alacrity have the language of "when you sepnd 1 reagenent do X". With perpetual you do not spent a reagent.
I've played with GMs that allow it though.
4)
yes
5)
poison is an affliction. it works in similar ways as persistent for some things, but you can check the exact rules on "afflictions" for more clarity.
as far as the example question of how nad when it triggers, it's similar but not quite like persistent. Although there are some people saying that maybe it's not the end of the afflicted' turn that they get the 2nd saving throw (general affliction rules) but it's the start of your 2nd round (general effect duration rules). Either way, for a poison with 0 onset:
afflicted->1st save->instantly go to stage 1 and take damage.
end of turn (or start of your 2nd turn depending on who you ask)->2nd save->drop stage or raise stage, take new damage->repeat
the difference from persistent is that persistent doesn't have an "initial" damage like poisons that you instantly take the stage 1 poison when you progress to that.
shroudb wrote: 1)
it depends when you think a poison is "used". If you rule that it is used on application to the weapon, then yes. But then you run to the problem of making all the infused poisons as well persist throughtout days, weeks, and months. Given time, an alchemist can basically double up on reagents, which seems contrary to the spirit of the rules.
so, i personally rule that "used" for poisons is when the poison is triggered, not when the poison is applied to something.
for elixirs it is similarly when you drink it and apply its effects.
What concerns me more
As already mentioned, using quick alchemy uses 1 action, while apply a poison takes 2 actions.
you don't have actions left to use it ( unless toxicologist or the endure alchemy feat ).
It's hard for me to accept the fact that the alchemist has a baseline perk ( leaving apart alacrity and probably other stuff ) which doesn't work at all.
shroudb wrote:
alacrity is useless exactly due to what you said. they even changed the rule in the latest errata, so the 3rd item is automatically stowed, but that is just negative actions compared to simply always using double brew. So just pretend that alacrity doesn't exist (or better yet, ask your GM to houserule it)
Leaving apart Alacrity, and I share your same thoughts, it's simply not convenient to even use the double brew option.
- You can trigger free action effects just once per quick alchemy, so you won't probably be using 2 batch per quick alchemy.
- Advanced alchemy is way more powerful, so you will probably create items during daily preparations, leaving extra batch not for versatility, but for quick alchemy feats purposes.
- MAP is your enemy, and given how quick alchemy works it wouldn't only be something not efficient ( using 2 batch would be a nonsense as expense ), but also not performant ( to get a -5 on your second attack ). You won't be also able to apply a poison, if you consider it will last until the end of your turn, even as a toxicologist ( 1 action for quick alchemy, 1 to drink/throw an alchemical item, 1 to apply the poison, which will be wasted at the end of your turn ).
I know the class was abandoned and incomplete but since I haven't looked at it that closely I never realized it was that much.
shroudb wrote: per strict RAW, no. Double brew/alacrity have the language of "when you sepnd 1 reagenent do X". With perpetual you do not spent a reagent.
I've played with GMs that allow it though.
Quick niggle
Double Brew wrote: When using the Quick Alchemy action, instead of spending one batch of infused reagents to create a single item, you can spend up to two batches of infused reagents to make up to two alchemical items as described in that action. These items do not have to be the same. Perpetual Alchemy wrote: You gain the ability to create two 1st-level alchemical items using Quick Alchemy without spending a batch of infused reagents Reagent spending isn't written as a requirement but a modification of quick alchemy action, it doesn't include any new exclusionary text.
This means that perpetual infusion's text works fine RAW.
To further elaborate, it doesn't say "when you spend" it says "instead of spending... you can spend..."
This doesn't conflict with Perpetual alchemy that mitigates the cost of spending an infused reagent upon usage for those items.
As for alacrity it has some purpose when you are quickened, perpetual craft 2 bombs (debilitating and sticky) and quick alchemy one elixir of life. Double slice (via the ranged feat) with the bombs and throw the elixir of life at an ally. Not a bad 4 action option if you have it available. Three bombs can also work well if you have a flurry ranger sharing their prey with you.
The Gleeful Grognard wrote: shroudb wrote: per strict RAW, no. Double brew/alacrity have the language of "when you sepnd 1 reagenent do X". With perpetual you do not spent a reagent.
I've played with GMs that allow it though.
Quick niggle
Double Brew wrote: When using the Quick Alchemy action, instead of spending one batch of infused reagents to create a single item, you can spend up to two batches of infused reagents to make up to two alchemical items as described in that action. These items do not have to be the same. Perpetual Alchemy wrote: You gain the ability to create two 1st-level alchemical items using Quick Alchemy without spending a batch of infused reagents Reagent spending isn't written as a requirement but a modification of quick alchemy action, it doesn't include any new exclusionary text.
This means that perpetual infusion's text works fine RAW.
To further elaborate, it doesn't say "when you spend" it says "instead of spending... you can spend..."
This doesn't conflict with Perpetual alchemy that mitigates the cost of spending an infused reagent upon usage for those items.
As for alacrity it has some purpose when you are quickened, perpetual craft 2 bombs (debilitating and sticky) and quick alchemy one elixir of life. Double slice (via the ranged feat) with the bombs and throw the elixir of life at an ally. Not a bad 4 action option if you have it available. Three bombs can also work well if you have a flurry ranger sharing their prey with you. you cut off the important part in your quote:
it specifically says "instead of spending 1"
so, if you aren't spending 1, it doesn't apply. Also it spewcifically also grants 2 items when using 2 reagents (the "up to 2" part)
it sucks, but that's the raw.
---
to clarify, if the ability said "when you use quick alchemy" and nothing else, it would be fine.
but as written, we have 2 modifications in place.
1 says "you do not spent reagents"
and the other says "when you spent 1 reagent"
so as written, they are mutually exlusive.
shroudb wrote: Also it spewcifically also grants 2 items when using 2 reagents (the "up to 2" part) This sounds like you're trying to vomit on a particular object. ;)
Recent threads in Rules Discussion
|
