Fortune effects on Downtime checks?

[Blave]

I could swear I read somewhere that you can't apply rerolls like Halfling Luck to Downtime Checks like Earn an Income or Crafting. But I can't find any rule saying so. Am I imagining things? Or was it just for a specific activity or something?

Can someone fathom were I got this idea from?

[HammerJack]

The Fortune tag isn't what you're actually looking for. The rule you need is that one-time effects don't work on downtime activities. Things like Assurance, which you can use constantly over the course of the day, are usable.

[Blave]

HammerJack wrote:

The Fortune tag isn't what you're actually looking for. The rule you need is that one-time effects don't work on downtime activities. Things like Assurance, which you can use constantly over the course of the day, are usable.

That would explain why searching for Fortune didn't give me any results. Would you happen to know where exactly this is written.

[Nefreet]

I believe it's in an obscure place, like the Magic chapter, or something.

EDIT: HERE was a discussion over in the PFS Forum about using Assurance on Day Job rolls.

It looks like there isn't consensus on whether it works, or not, because the restriction laid out in the Rituals section seems incomplete.

[Cordell Kintner]

The OPF interprets it as not being able to use fortune effects at all. My views and explanations are all in the thread Nefreet posted.

[Taja the Barbarian]

The relevant restriction on Downtime activities is referenced in the Ritual Casting rules, but I don't believe it is mentioned anywhere else*:

Chapter 7: Spells / Casting Rituals / Checks wrote:

Source Core Rulebook pg. 408 2.0

At the ritual’s culmination, you must attempt the skill check listed in the Primary Check entry to determine the ritual’s outcome. Primary checks usually have a very hard DC for a level that’s twice the ritual’s spell level. As with other downtime activities, fortune and misfortune effects can’t modify your checks for the ritual, nor can bonuses or penalties that aren’t active throughout the process. The GM can adjust the DCs of rituals, add or change primary or secondary checks, or even waive requirements to fit specific circumstances. For example, performing a ritual in a location where ley lines converge on the night of a new moon might make a normally difficult ritual drastically easier.

Assuming this isn't a reference to a rule that was actually dropped during development, it clearly implies that no Fortune or Misfortune effect can modify any downtime activity roll.

*This is similar to the restriction how powerful of a rune a weapon/armor of a certain material grade can hold, which is only mentioned in the 'Precious Materials' rules.

[Squiggit]

Taja the Barbarian wrote:

but I don't believe it is mentioned anywhere else*

Sort of. The rules for downtime have a similar line, but with a different context. Rather than a blanket prohibition on fortune effects, it's a prohibition on effects with a short term duration, with fortune effects to roll twice being listed as an example. It also specifically calls out that constant effects and abilities that can work constantly should be fine.

[Taja the Barbarian]

Squiggit wrote:

Taja the Barbarian wrote:

but I don't believe it is mentioned anywhere else*

Sort of. The rules for downtime have a similar line, but with a different context. Rather than a blanket prohibition on fortune effects, it's a prohibition on effects with a short term duration, with fortune effects to roll twice being listed as an example. It also specifically calls out that constant effects and abilities that can work constantly should be fine.

So, we have two apparently contradictory rules:

Per the Ritual Casting rules, Fortune/Misfortune effects can not be used for downtime checks, regardless of duration (note how it calls out all fortune/misfortune effects, plus any bonus/penalty that doesn't cover the entire downtime).

Chapter 7: Spells / Casting Rituals / Checks wrote:

Source Core Rulebook pg. 408 2.0

At the ritual’s culmination, you must attempt the skill check listed in the Primary Check entry to determine the ritual’s outcome. Primary checks usually have a very hard DC for a level that’s twice the ritual’s spell level. As with other downtime activities, fortune and misfortune effects can’t modify your checks for the ritual, nor can bonuses or penalties that aren’t active throughout the process. The GM can adjust the DCs of rituals, add or change primary or secondary checks, or even waive requirements to fit specific circumstances. For example, performing a ritual in a location where ley lines converge on the night of a new moon might make a normally difficult ritual drastically easier.

Per the actual downtime rules, only effects that last your entire downtime will work.

Chapter 10: Game Mastering / Running Modes of Play / Downtime / Playing out a Downtime Day / Checks wrote:

Source Core Rulebook pg. 500 2.0

Some downtime activities require rolls, typically skill checks. Because these rolls represent the culmination of a series of tasks over a long period, players can’t use most abilities or spells that manipulate die rolls, such as activating a magic item to gain a bonus or casting a fortune spell to roll twice. Constant benefits still apply, though, so someone might invest a magic item that gives them a bonus without requiring activation. You might make specific exceptions to this rule. If something could apply constantly, or so often that it might as well be constant, it’s more likely to be used for downtime checks..

I guess it's a GM's pick on which rule is correct...

[Blave]

I think Assurance is the only "constant" Fortune effect. Being unable to use that for Downtime Checks would be a bit weird.

But anyway, the rules bit from the Downtime section in Running Modes of Play is what I was looking for. It's weird that this seems not to be mentioned anywhere in the actual Downtime chapter.

Thanks!