Claw build, help me optimize!


Advice


Okay here is the deal. I want to do a build that is focused on making the best claw build in pathfinder, I always end up playing spellcasters and wanted to do something different this time. Here is what I have so far:

18 str
10 dex
16 con
10 int
16 wis
10 cha

I started at level two so I went two level of natural weapon ranger to get aspect of the beast (1d4 primary claw attacks). I picked half-orc for flavor and for the feral racial subtype for backstory, which gives me toothy and a primary bite attack just for fun. I went shapeshifter ranger because it says it stacks with other shapeshifiting abilities and I saw the feat shapeshifting hunter. Shapeshifting hunter ended up being the other core element of my build. Here is my build so far:

level 1 Shapeshifter Ranger Feat: Favored Defense(Orc)
level 2 Shapeshifter Ranger Combat style feat: Aspect of the beast (claws)
level 3 Mooncaller Druid Feat: Weapon Focus (claws)
level 4 Mooncaller Druid
level 5 Mooncaller Druid Feat: Improved Natural weapon (claws)
level 6 Mooncaller Druid
level 7 Shapeshifter Ranger Feat: Shapeshifting Hunter, Bonus feat: Endurance
level 8 Shapeshifter Ranger
level 9 Mooncaller Druid Feat: Shaping Focus
level 10 Mooncaller Druid
level 11 Shapeshifter Ranger Feat: Rending Claws
level 12 Shapeshifter Ranger Combat Style Feat: Eldritch Claws
level 13 Mooncaller Druid Feat: Rending Fury
level 14 Mooncaller Druid
level 15 Shapeshifter Ranger Feat: Improved Rending Fury
level 16 Shapeshifter Ranger
level 17 Shapeshifter Ranger Feat: Greater Rending Fury
level 18 Shapeshifter Ranger Combat Style Feat: Multiattack
level 19 Shapeshifter Ranger Feat: Slayer's Knack (orc)
level 20 Shapeshifter Ranger

total: 12 level Ranger, 8 Druid
This gives me full favored enemy and Druid shapeshifting abilities plus Duel form shifter (which I think is better then master shifter that shapeshiter rangers get at 20th) a total BA of 18, my base saves would be F +14 R +10 W +10 all at 20th. I don't expect to get to 20th level but like to plan all the way to that point just in case. I picked weather for my druid domain, I will be picking a leopard for my Ranger animal companion and have +1 hp as my favored class option for ranger. my shifter's blessing will most likely be bear to start with and probably dragon as my second choice. I think that shifting into a wolverine is my best wild shape choice since my DM said that all of my feats related to claws will still apply as long as I am in a form that has claw attacks. Pretty much all of this is up for discussion, and I will explain things the best I can if need be. I just feel I have gotten to the point that I have mulled over this character as much as I can on my own and am now ready for some feedback. I think anything pathfinder can apply, with approval from the DM. Some of the other characters are using third party stuff but no 3.0 or 3.5 is allowed. Alright? Ready? Go!


I kinda used Treantmonk's build advice for the switch hitter Ranger and combined it with Treatmonk's The Druid Handbook Part 2: The Spirit of the Beast; as far as Ideas I thought that would work for Shapeshifting Hunter/claw build goes. Any advice would be helpful, and yes I know I should have Natural Spell but he is not really a spellcaster?


Consider being a tiefling, possibly a daemonspawn (or whatever one gets you the str boost) Tieflings can have a claw attack right off the bat.

There's a fighter archetype called savage warrior that looks promising for you as well. The two weapon fighting chain seems like a natural, as does the feat 'improved natural attack'

I'm interested in playing as a dhampir who fights with his claws (I use a lot of third party material) and his fangs and just goes around slashing everyone and sucking out their blood.


Tiefling is better for the build for the double stat boost, also, mix the stats more. that 18 looks good on paper, but you'll want the dex or when you finally get to wildshape and lose 2-4 points based on size, the natural armor is pretty much negated.

Were those rolled stats? If not, it's a 30pt buy (assuming +2str racial), and you can do better than that spread.

Take the bite from tiefling and claws from feat, so that you get all 3 primary natural attacks instead of the secondary from toothy. (or does the half orc get a primary bite too?)


Half orcs can take the 'toothy' alternate racial trait for a primary bite attack. I think some of the other races can get claws and teeth as well- catfolk do, and so do changelings (who also get a damage boost and natural armor too!), so whichever one takes your fancy. Tiefling is a good one because of the stat boosts, the outsider type, and a number of other great advantages.


Yep, These are rolled stats. The racial +2 went into strength. I can't currently change race as I am at fourth level now. I will look into Tieflings though to see if I can tweek the build with it. I know the dex sucks, I will probably be investing the last four of my ability boosts into to it. My first boost went into con as I was at a 15 originally. Toothy does count as a primary attack as well, for a total of three primary attacks. :)


Not boosting your highest stat with level increases is a waste of pointbuy.

And I think Barbarian or Alchemist can do way better than that.


Just some thoughts with a background of running a druid, primarily using wildshape.

Something natural atack builds should remember is dr and magic enhancement.
I would plan on getting an amulet of mighty fists soonest, which may save you the eldrich claws feat.

If you take primarily ranger levels, why not get the animal companion from druid to keep your beast maxed out?

Your caster level will not be that high, so the domain spells won't be as strong.
It is possible the domain power will make up for that, so its your decision.

You can replace eldrich claws with the natural spellcasting feat, giving you alot of versatility in animal form.
If you wild shape for scouting as well as combat, it can really help to have the feat that lets you talk in animal form, especially as you will find yourself more limited in number of wildshapes rather than duration of wild shape.
It means you can tell your companions what you saw and stay wildshaped.

AC sucks for wild shaped, though you won't need to worry as much as a ranger.
Wild shape armor is expensive, at a +3 bonus.
Spells, amulets and friendly casters will help this out.

While transformed, you will find many magic items change in usefulness, as only constant effects work.
By RAW, bracers of AC give an armor bonus and won't help in wild shape, though your GM may allow it- mine did.

If leopard or whatever form you prefer has a bite attack, as well as pounce, you might want to get weapon focus bite as well, just to keep you bonuses the same.
At higher levels, the stright BAB classes will have more attacks, while natural attacks stay constant, so keeping the attack bonuses high plays to your strength since all attacks will be at full BAB.

Just some thoughts.

PS: There is a feat that gives you four more levels to your wildshape, not to exceed character level, this could give you alot more options with wild shape in terms of duration and gaining abilities.
Elemental wild shape can be fun, even if there are other forms you prefer for combat.

Sczarni

My unarmed build is a Toothy Half Orc Natural Weapon Ranger (3 primary natural attacks). I've run the numbers and taking Unarmed Strike, Dragon Style, an Dragon Ferocity (by way of a level dip into Unarmed Fighter at 11th) really boosts his DPR.

I haven't run the numbers for TWF with Unarmed Strikes because it's for PFS and caps at 12th... But I do the math to see if it's worth it just for kicks... If I do I'll report back.

Your build looks pretty solid. I opted for Boon Companion and some Teamwork feats more for RP reasons. I think your rending build is probably more optimal.

I'll have to check out this Shapeshifting Hunter feat... I didn't think the ranger archetype was that great - but I didn't know about that feat.


Krodjin wrote:
My unarmed build is a Toothy Half Orc Natural Weapon Ranger (3 primary natural attacks). I've run the numbers and taking Unarmed Strike, Dragon Style, an Dragon Ferocity (by way of a level dip into Unarmed Fighter at 11th) really boosts his DPR.

Just remember that using style feats for natural attacks requires the feral combat feat for each attack, which also means you need weapon focus for each natural attack.

So, for bite and claw attacks, you need to spend 4 feats.

Dark Archive

Cornielius wrote:
Krodjin wrote:
My unarmed build is a Toothy Half Orc Natural Weapon Ranger (3 primary natural attacks). I've run the numbers and taking Unarmed Strike, Dragon Style, an Dragon Ferocity (by way of a level dip into Unarmed Fighter at 11th) really boosts his DPR.

Just remember that using style feats for natural attacks requires the feral combat feat for each attack, which also means you need weapon focus for each natural attack.

So, for bite and claw attacks, you need to spend 4 feats.

Yep, that's what killed the idea for the NA Tiefling Ranger/Bard I'm currently playing in a Skull & Shackles game. It's essentially every single feat to 11th or so, instead I went for Eldritch Heritage Orc and still had room for a few other feats, Power Attack, Boon Companion, etc. The DPR comes out pretty decent and gives you far more choice and versatility I feel.


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I believe too that the best thing you can do to increase dpr is to go with a one or two lvl dip in MoMS/Monk of the Sacred Mountain for Dragon Style-Ferocity and feral combat training on claws and bite. Weapon Focus is good by itself anyway. The Eldrich heritage route would be interesting if you hadn't dump Charisma.


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Not entirely useful for Erastaroth, since he is going ranger/druid, and thus can turn into something fierce with claws, but for others, have you ever considered using boar style instead of claws?

The fluff around boar style fits fairly well, since it is a style for various monstrous humanoids and the like, and involves training and altering your teeth and nails to be razor sharp. The 2d6 bleed when you get off 2 attacks is also rather appealing.

A single level of MoMS monk would grab you the first feat in the style chain, and then you can move into ranger for (x) levels for TWF. It works well since the single level dip is just within the range of boon companion, and the ranger's access to Greater Magical Fang is fantastic (according to FAQ, your unarmed strike counts as one weapon for spells but two for TWF, meaning one strong casting can last you most of the day). The fact that the monk's unarmed strikes are never offhand also helps improve your DPR. And you still technically have a good TWF build that could work with regular weapons if DR becomes an issue.

Sczarni

Cornielius wrote:
Krodjin wrote:
My unarmed build is a Toothy Half Orc Natural Weapon Ranger (3 primary natural attacks). I've run the numbers and taking Unarmed Strike, Dragon Style, an Dragon Ferocity (by way of a level dip into Unarmed Fighter at 11th) really boosts his DPR.

Just remember that using style feats for natural attacks requires the feral combat feat for each attack, which also means you need weapon focus for each natural attack.

So, for bite and claw attacks, you need to spend 4 feats.

I wasn't intending to use the style Feats on natural attacks, so no need for all those feats.

With multiattack as the 10th level bonus feat you only suffer a -2 when combining natural weapons into a full attack sequence

so UAS gives you 3 attacks at 11/6/1 and then the natural attacks at 9/9/9

Dragon Style & Ferocity give damage bump to UAS, but the natural attacks are now secondary and get .5 STR. Overall it ups the DPR when compared to three natural attacks only.

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