A fair portion of Fighter feats are focused on different weapon sets
Given that you want a shield. Most of it is obvious all the feat that help with your shield. My favourites would be Quick Shield Block (with a sturdy shield) or Paragon Guard to free up your actions. But there is not a lot that is particularily offensive.
Some options:
Swipe is OK
Double Slice works if you use a shield boss, you can bash with your shield and your sword. It is a bit tricky to keep your proficiency high for both weapons.
Shielded Stride (to get flanking easily or to escape), Quick Reversal
Rogue Dedication, Sneak Attacker for a bit extra bite
Or Swash Bucklers Dedication, SwashBucklers Riposte for more no MAP attacks. Also Combat Reflexes
The Agressive Block feat tree doesn't especially inspire me, but it does work.
Rank your athletics score so you can Grab/Trip/Shove/Disarm These can be worthwhile even though you don't bother to take specific feats related to these maneuvers.
Don't be afraid to mix styles. Take a bastard sword and switch to two handed when you decide to be more offensive. Or think about an agile sword.
Also one thing to think about is that some of the shield feats actually free up actions for attacking. Since to use the shield you have to spend an action to raise it. There are at least 2 shield feats that reduce this or make it a reaction. This alone will free up more actions to attack with that sword you are so good with.
I'd say take a good, hard look at Double Slice. That way, your shield (with a shield boss or spikes attached!) becomes a non-agile off-hand weapon. Someone else did the math, and attacking twice with a D8 weapon like a longsword at +0/-5 and making your second attack with a -2 and a D6 weapon instead are actually very close in statistical damage output. And since Double Slice allows you to combine the damage if both strikes hit, you also do not lose out compared to two-handed style when resistances apply.
Now once you reach lv. 5, and presumably you get Master proficiency with your main hand weapon, the off-hand shield bash will effectively be made at -4 compared to your main weapon. Which just so happens to be the same as a second attack with an Agile weapon, none of which currently have a larger damage die then a D6 anyway.
In other words, using a shield as an off-hand weapon is perfectly viable as far as damage output is concerned. You do sacrifice the chance to make use of interesting weapon traits on your off-hand weapon, like Trip or Disarm etc., but the real draw is having that sweet +2 to AC from raising your shield. That is well worth a 3rd action you are not using to flank, demoralise or trip someone, and even then it might be worth it to just use a single strike instead of Double Slice to squeeze everything into one turn.
Also, if you use a bastard sword, or any other weapon with the Two-Handed trait, you can simply drop your shield and switch the grip on your weapon to switch to two-handed fighting mode. So consider actually using Shield Block once in a while, even if it breaks your shield. Might keep you from getting KOed, and that is well worth having to cobble your shield back into form again between fights.
After browsing the publicly available info and reading some discussions online, I finally took the plunge to buy my first Pathfinder books. Yay! Now I'm trying to familiarize myself with the system by making a few characters, seeing what I can make and what I can't, and running a quick adventure with friends soon.
So, I'm trying to recreate an old favorite character. He's a master swordsman, in the historical style, using a longsword and shield. After looking at the classes, the obvious choice was Fighter - best proficiency bonuses, Attack of Opportunity for free, etc., and just the flavor of being the best with the weapon. Seems perfect.
My question is this - most of the feats I'm seeing for a Fighter to improve his abilities with a weapon seem focused on a two-handed weapon or keeping a hand free. Options for a Fighter with a shield seem focused on the shield. Even in the APG, there are Archetypes granting interesting options to nearly other fighting style, but if you're using a shield, it really expects you to focus on the shield.
What can I do with this character to really make him shine?
There are a couple non-shield style-independent feats you can take that would work out. Sudden Charge is an awesome feat that helps with action economy, as you can both double-stride and then perform a strike at the end of your movement, great for any combat style.
Power Attack is a good feat that scales in level. While it best synergizes with two-handed weapons, getting multiple weapon dice is still useful, and D8s are pretty average damage dealing dice.
If you have some solid Intelligence and Knowledge skills (such as Arcane, Religion, etc.), Combat Assessment is a great feat for action economy as well, especially if you're already in position to make a strike.
Lunge is another awesome feat that lets you make a strike at a safer distance, if you're afraid of triggering other attacks of opportunity or if you just need that extra 5 feet to make a strike. It's best when combined with a Reach weapon, so you can strike at a distance that makes enemies still provoke attacks of opportunity for you, but I've seen sword and board use it to good effect as well.
That being said, I would at least still look into getting some shield feats, as they are really strong and push the weapon style in ways that it needs the most. Feats like Shielded Stride, Reflexive Shield, Quick Shield Block, are all solid shield feat choices you should consider.
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Feats that work with the weapon and shield that is not about the shield, but including passives.
Combat Assessment
Exacting Strike
Power Atttack
Sudden Charge
Dragging Strike
Intimidating Strike
Lunge
Barreling Charge
Knockdown (Weapon needs Trip trait)
Swipe
Advantageous Assault
Revealing Stab (Piercing Weapon)
Shatter Defenses
Felling Strike
Sudden Leap
Certain Strike
Cut from the Air
Spring Attack
Desperate Finisher
Whirlwind Strike
Overwhelming Blow
Get a 14 Wis because it's your weakest save (and you Crit failing a Will save could lead to a TPK).
Maybe look at Half-Elf to get access to Elf feats that aid Will (albeit only some types). Plus you can get some speed & flexibility there.
Speaking of speed, expect to wear Heavy Armor (making Dwarf a good option too) as it's the best even if you have the Dex. There are very few ways to increase AC, so take advantage of your class's access to this (& Armor Expertise).
And you'll usually want the Dex for Ref saves unless going Sentinel Dedication for Mighty Bulwark (a path I don't recommend though) or you have other build needs. And you'll always want Dex for when you need to engage in ranged combat.
As for Dedications, my normal advice is to get one, even if only for the strong entry feat. For your build, I'd say it's that much easier as your fighting style doesn't demand much investment. The number of options here is so tremendous it'd be hard to capture in a post, but I will say, offensive or counteracting Cantrips are not as worthwhile as many make them out to be (due to low proficiency and sub-par stat). Even if they patch the need for a ranged attack. Other Cantrips are solid and can help round out your party's utility.
How do you want to use your shield?
If you want to Shield Block (and who doesn't?!), then you'll need a Sturdy Shield and to not spend your Reaction elsewhere.
If there's another shield you prefer*, you'll only want it for AC and it won't be so great at taking a hit. Then using your Reaction for it makes good sense. Except again, who doesn't want to Shield Block? It's a great way to mitigate damage. I've seen PCs shield off several rounds of minion damage with little damage to their shield, but effectively doubling their own h.p. from damage blocked.
To me, Reactive Shield is only useful to get to Quick Shield Block (which is like a free action every round) or when surprised I suppose.
You're going to want a Stance, and Quick Shield Block is likely your best option for your style. Check out others first though.
*Spellguard Shield is a great one that cannot remain competitive for absorbing damage, but +2 to saves targeting you is tremendous. Going that direction would change my advice accordingly as you'll eventually never Shield Block with it. Of course, Spellguard Shield becomes relatively cheap at higher levels, so might become your spare for when facing more magical foes.
How do you envision using your rounds?
If you're using one action for your shield so you can use a Reaction for Shield Block (or maybe an AoO when possible), then you get two actions more. To me this suggests Sudden Charge as a solid feat. It makes up somewhat for having your hands occupied (which makes swapping to and from ranged attacks difficult) by giving you mobility to get to your opponents (and safely because you still can raise your shield.)
Double Slice is an option for if you expect to be locked toe-to-toe quite often, but you couldn't use it with a move & block. I think in play, the situation's going well for you if you're toe-to-toe swinging, so I'd go for Sudden Charge for tougher battles that force you to move!
Plus Press feats take one-action, so Shield/Strike/Press might become your regular toe-to-toe routine instead.
What kind of sword?
The longsword's likely not your best option. It has versatile damage, except wanting piercing damage doesn't occur much. (Blunt/Slashing are where it's at.)
So there's the bastard sword, which I'll recommend. You've got your shield up when facing numerous enemies. Then the battle winds down and your shield's broken or near enough you don't want to use it. So you swap to 2-handed use and don't feel so bad about losing the shield. :)
There's also the short sword, which works quite well if you're already taking Double Slice. Going from d8 to d6 to gain +2 attack? Yes, please.
(If you have other tactics in mind, other swords may be better.)
What to do about ranged attacks?
Javelins work fine when you're a Fighter. Your higher proficiency doesn't demand Dex to be competitive and later you can afford a decent bow (for extended ranged battles) and will likely bump your Dex too. At highest levels you'll want access to flight somehow, as you'll get that much better at melee relatively.
Sudden Leap & Felling Strike are really cool, and can substitute for flight in many indoor battles, except they're competing with some other really cool stuff! Something to consider, and party composition plays a major factor here, as might campaign locales.
What about non-combat contributions?
Many Dedications (especially Rogue) come with skills to help broaden your options. Many Ancestries have good skill feats (two plus Lore for your Ancestry, it just depends on if those two are any good.)
Craft. Somebody needs to be able to fix your shield in the field. That onus is on you unless you find an ally willing to help.
Wisdom-based skills are a decent route as you need to be taking your Wisdom to 18 anyway for saves.
Intimidation. To Charisma or not to Charisma... Do you have the actions? (if Raising Shield every round I'd say not really) Willing to give up that Dex for ranged combat to gain a short range debuff? (Because you're going to need to max Str and get Con & Wis to 18 at minimum eventually.) It'd be great if you could juggle all the abilities you want to have, though I think this field may be out of your reach (and it'd cut into your skill feats too). That said, if you do take Rogue MCD, you can gain some skill feats (and maybe a nice +1d6 Sneak).
So yeah, beef up the Will, figure out how you want to spend your Reactions (and which ones you'll want more of), choose a good Stance, a good Press, and the other feats can nab a Dedication or round out your breadth of options. I'll guess you'll find you've spent your feats rather fast! And PF2 has ingrained Retraining, so don't sweat it. Don't forget later the Fighter gets spare feats to swap around and dabble.
- snip great post -Thanks! I appreciate the effort that went into this.
Could you explain why you would want Heavy Armor, even if you have the Dex to make up the difference in AC between that and Medium? Isn't it a waste of Speed at that point?
The question of ranged combat for this character is interesting. In the past, he's always deferred to his psycho Rogue/Sorcerer-esque cousin for that, and just defended him instead of trying to venture outside his own reach. Maybe he'll pick up javelins, just in case.
I like Quick Shield Block to make sure I can get the most out of my shield, then going more offensive with a Bastard Sword once it breaks.
Going to be rough going, plotting the stats for this build, because I like the concept of the Swashbuckler Dedication, but committing those early points to both Dexterity and Charisma is going to sting.
You're welcome. :)
If it were the difference between light & medium, then your Str will overcome the speed deficit anyway, plus medium works with Armor Specialization. So it'd be a trade between less Bulk vs. the modest resistance from AS (at 11th+).
But we're talking about heavy armor, where your Str would reduce the penalty from -10' to -5' (unless you take the Dwarf Ancestry feat).
So it's a trade between:
Light: Least Bulk, normal speed, same AC as medium (assuming Dex)
Medium: Armor Specialization (11th), normal speed (assuming Str)
Heavy: Most Bulk, better Armor Specialization (11th), +1 to maximum possible AC, and -5' speed (assuming you have Str)
That +1 AC for -5' speed is nearly always worth it. It represents having about 1/6x more hit points (vs. standard foes).
In PF2, if using published adventures you'll have to contribute to every battle. Unlike PF1 and many variants of DnD, a minority of the party cannot carry the day. It doesn't have to be damage, but since you're a Fighter...
In wider areas, you'd likely want to have a javelin out already.
1st round throw/draw weapon/shield up.
Whether the weapon you draw is your sword or another javelin depends on the layout (and a lot more factors as y'all level up).
Swashbuckler Dedication isn't worth it IMO. As you've noted, it's too costly in stats early on (unless you'd already planned on having both that high), and after 5th it's competing with better feats. The 9th level Half-Elf Entry which avoids stat prereqs would be one way to enter, though pretty much every Fighter feat after that is too darn good to swap for a Swashbuckler one of half the level.
Compare to Rogue where you'd only need Dex and would get an explosion of skills. Or Bard, where you'd only need Cha, which would give you access to the Shield Cantrip as a nice extra spurt of blocking (even when 2-handing the sword) and would give access to a Master Will save feat later. (You wouldn't really have the actions for song buffs though.)
Or Cleric which wouldn't need either stat (and you should have the Wisdom) which would get you two skills and the Shield spell plus the potential for a nice Focus spell (or Emblazon Armament for a modest perma-buff.)
Yeah, Swashbuckler MCD doesn't cut it, and you can get all the flavor of it from simply acting like one. As a rule of thumb, most martial MCDs aren't that great for other martials unless there's a feat on the other side that'll make your build really sparkle. And a lot of those have been moved into the new Dedications from the APG!
Yeah, the bastard sword/Shield Block until it's broken route is pretty reliable for guarding your cousin. A Rogue w/ a Sorcery bent will be a lot harder to make (largely due to survivability!, the concept itself has many viable routes). Having you mitigating damage alongside him would help there.
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What you are getting out of swash buckler is riposte. Because you are going to get critically missed a lot, it is a lot of no MAP attacks.
There are other options in class for other fighting styles. But for sword and board or two-handed. This is what you want. Yes it costs in ability scores unless you go the half elf route. No, not for a heavy armour build. So make your choices.
Shield is only a stronger defensive style if you get into want to shield block. I think that is a bit too defensive for a fighter. I'd rather use those reactions for ripostes and attack of opportunity
Having a hand free will help with trip/grab/shove/disarm which are useful for a fighter.
So I don't disagree with going one handed. The Swashbuckler route only makes sense if you are going for a polearm or two handed weapon.
do not be afraid to not build towards the ultimate optimisation. Have fun with your build!