Using Strength, Intelligence, and Charisma to partially replace the other Ability Scores for Saving Throws

[Kinjar]

One of the issues with the Ability Score Array is the power of saving throws and the weakness that comes from not investing your level ups when you other Ability Scores are raised. One Example is a Wizard who raises Int and then raises Dex/Con/Wis if they're not using Str or Cha. If the Wizard wanted to use Cha for skills then depending on how effectively he uses and invests in those skills determines if it was a better or worse option.

I don't think wanting to raise Str or Cha should ever be balanced against the defensive prowess of a saving throw so I had an idea on how to change that.

My idea starts off with the idea that Strength, Intelligence, and Charisma correspond to a saving throw. Str for Fortitude, Int for Reflex, and Cha for Will. In the Alternative Ability Score Array Strength combined with Constitution and Charisma gained Will Saves. Int could be considered using your powerful mind to react/predict danger.

So my idea is that the alternate stat gains +1 to its saving throw every 4 points, so 14,18, and 22. It's limited by the natural cap a character could have with the same stat at that level. So since 18 Dex is +4 Reflex to get +4 Reflex you would need 18 Int for +2 Reflex and 14 Dex for +2 Reflex.

Another thing to take into account is that only one stat could every reach max potential so an 18 Dex Character can only reach 16 Wis for +3 Will the cap remains similar for the 18 Int Character.

With this system a max stat of 22 without the +2 stat item Dexterity at level 20 would be 22 for a +6 reflex so 22 Intelligence and 16 Dexterity would be enough to reach cap. With a stat item placed into Intelligence the cap would become +7 reflex then requiring 18 Dexterity. Dexterity only raised from 14-18 with this system allowing 2 level ups to go into other stats.

[shroudb]

i do not like the Strength- Con pairing.

Con is a purely defensive stat. It literally does nothing else excpet HP and fort.

It isn't used by any class for any other roll. It isn't even used by a single skill.

So, i believe limiting Fort to it and it alone is fair.

Wis and Dex are more problematic because they are stats that can be used offensively as well. Dex for ranged/finesse and Wis for some casters. Plus, even outside specific classes, they are used by multiple skills as well.

So, for those specific classes dex and wis does double down as both offensive and defensive stat, while for all the rest classes they have to split their offensive stat and their defensive stats.

So, for Will and Dex, your idea does have merit, but for Fort, i would leave it alone.

[Staffan Johansson]

You could go with the 4e solution, where each defense* is connected with a pair of stats and you use the higher one for determining the defense. Fortitude uses Strength or Constitution, Reflex Dexterity or Intelligence, and Will Wisdom or Charisma.

Another method would be the 13th age one, where Fortitude and Reflex are combined into Physical Defense and Will is renamed Mental Defense. You then use the middle one of Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution for PD and of Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma for MD.

* 4e has Fortitude, Reflex and Will as defenses instead of saves, so they are the difficulty against which an attacker rolls in order to affect you. A saving throw in 4e is specifically an attempt to get rid of something bad that's already affecting you, and is usually a straight 10+ on d20.

[Kinjar]

I don't want to replace them since I don't wish to recreate the dump stat problem. Because 18 is the max required for Dex/Con/Wis it means you could start with 14 and only upgrade them every 10 levels to gain points for the defense. It also means Dex/Con/Wis don't need to become 20 so that become 4 stat points spread among other stats.

The argument against replacing Constitution does make sense since it is the least powerful compared to Dexterity & Wisdom. In that case only 2 stats need to be pared with saving throws.

In that situation it makes sense for Strength to be Reflex and Charisma to be Will. In this situation Intelligence could be either Reflex or Will. So Int would be Will when combined with Strength and Reflex when combined with Charisma.