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If I'm playing a human from Tian Xia with 10 intelligence, I get two languages.
Can I use those two languages to speak both Common (Taldane) AND Common (Tien)?
Or do I not need to spend two languages to do that?
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'Common' is the local common tongue. If you're in the Inner Sea region, it's Taldane. If you're in Tian Xia, it's Tien. So you can have Taldane and Tien as languages. And why not, may as well pick up one or two Undercommons.
(Edit: Get the Undercommons after increasing that Int a little..)
Humans also know one of their regional languages automatically.
Where is that stated? It was my understanding that the human bonus language (not those from high intelligence) could be anything.
'Common' is the local common tongue. If you're in the Inner Sea region, it's Taldane. If you're in Tian Xia, it's Tien. So you can have Taldane and Tien as languages.
So they are considered two distinct languages for the purposes of learning them then?
And why not, may as well pick up one or two Undercommons.
(Edit: Get the Undercommons after increasing that Int a little..)
I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure I follow your meaning.
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Yeah, the logical way to handle this is that "common" is whatever the common tongue of your region is. I'm too lazy to look up rules to support that, but it is such an obvious conclusion that it isn't really worth thinking about. The important thing is that you can talk to her majority of people in your campaign.
So as a human, you get your regional language and the bonus language. Technically the bonus language can be any you have access to, though for flavor tying it to your specific ethnicity makes sense.
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RD you always manage to find the strangest little wrinkles in the rules, especially when it concerns fiddly little assumptions that can cause future-proofing issues.
I suppose the Paizo team should probably keep this in mind whenever they get around to doing Lost Omens books that cover the various other Continents since this does indeed seem to be something of a hiccup based on the norms of the setting essentially assuming the players will always be creating Inner Sea characters.
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Searched for Common language in AoN PF2. First occurrence brought me, among other things : "The languages presented here are grouped according to how common they are throughout the Inner Sea region."
So, yes Paizo is deeply aware of this (and future proofed against it).
Then comes a list of languages that presents Common and Tien as separate entries, so yes they are 2 different languages.
The whole" Common" language is a legacy issue really. Common has been the language of PCs forever in DnD. I actually appreciated that in Golarion it was clearly identified as Taldane.
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Humans also know one of their regional languages automatically.Where is that stated? It was my understanding that the human bonus language (not those from high intelligence) could be anything.
In the Core Rulebook, after the most recent errata, Humans gain 1+Int additional languages, with the same limitations:
Choose from the list of common languages and any other languages to which you have access (such as the languages prevalent in your region).It's not really "anything", it's limited to standard languages and those common in your region. It's probably best to choose a region language for flavor since they're usually uncommon, unless you REALLY wanted to know something like Elven even though you are from the Saga Lands.
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Tien also being "Common" (and a distinct language from Taldane) is basically to avoid centering people's experiences around other people who live on literally the other side of the world.
But considering that Avistan is basically the smallest continent (except for Azlant, I guess), and that everybody is going to think "that language I grew up speaking and continue to speak-that's just normal language" I wonder if there aren't like 4-5 different "Common Tongues." Like if you have a PC who grew up on Arcadia, and has never left Arcadia and knows exclusively "other people who live on Arcadia" then they probably speak neither Tien nor Taldane (but they do speak "Common" per the rules).
But yes, you can know both Tien and Taldane.
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Tien is only common if the katana isn't an uncommon weapon. The rules are written with the assumption that the adventure takes place in the Inner Sea, if you're playing in Tian Xia then Tien is Common and Taldane isn't.
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Humans also know one of their regional languages automatically.Where is that stated? It was my understanding that the human bonus language (not those from high intelligence) could be anything.
'Common' is the local common tongue. If you're in the Inner Sea region, it's Taldane. If you're in Tian Xia, it's Tien. So you can have Taldane and Tien as languages.So they are considered two distinct languages for the purposes of learning them then?
I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure I follow your meaning.And why not, may as well pick up one or two Undercommons.
(Edit: Get the Undercommons after increasing that Int a little..)
A little humour. Since Undercommon is a thing if memory serves, although at least the last time I looked it was different under the Inner Sea than under Tian Xia.
I think the '1+' thing for Humans is for their 'native' language, so you avoid situations like a fierce Jalmeray barbarian not knowing Vudrani, or a mystical Kellid wizard from Sarkoris not knowing Hallit. Of course, Taldanes and Chelaxians then use it for a 'foreign' language.
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Historical comparisons are of little use, since it appears that Golarion has a high literacy rate. I expect a lot of common people speak multiple languages, especially those with frequent contact with speakers of other languages.
Tien is only common if the katana isn't an uncommon weapon. The rules are written with the assumption that the adventure takes place in the Inner Sea, if you're playing in Tian Xia then Tien is Common and Taldane isn't.
Languages are more portable than aesthetic styles or trade secrets. Someone living in Avistan could learn Tien from anybody who traveled there from Tian Xia, but could only learn "how to make a katana" from someone who traveled from Tian Xia who was also a blacksmith.
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Someone living in Avistan could learn Tien from anybody who traveled there from Tian Xia, but could only learn "how to make a katana" from someone who traveled from Tian Xia who was also a blacksmith.
Or learn from a blacksmith from Tian Xia that travelled there. Or reverse-engineer the formula from a found katana. Or, oddly, you can take the Inventor feat and as long as you find a location that the katana changes to common rarity they can just create the formula by osmosis. ;)
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Historical comparisons are of little use, since it appears that Golarion has a high literacy rate. I expect a lot of common people speak multiple languages, especially those with frequent contact with speakers of other languages.
I am not sure many native English speakers (the modern RL Common) fluently speak a foreign language, no matter how literate they are.
Why learn another language when everyone everywhere speaks your language?
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Historical comparisons are of little use, since it appears that Golarion has a high literacy rate. I expect a lot of common people speak multiple languages, especially those with frequent contact with speakers of other languages.I am not sure many native English speakers (the modern RL Common) fluently speak a foreign language, no matter how literate they are.
Why learn another language when everyone everywhere speaks your language?
While people like to think English is the most common language on Earth it's actually Mandarin with over 900M speakers, then Spanish with 460M, THEN English with about 380M. English just has the luxury of being the official language of international Aviation so it's spread pretty much everywhere.
And on the second part, yes a lot of native English speakers only speak English (myself included). Becoming bi-lingual is much more difficult after becoming an adult, while it's super easy when developing language skills in the first place. Still super salty that my mother didn't teach me Spanish, her native language, while growing up...
TBH I think it's kind of weird that elves all speak the same language, even if they live in opposite sides of the planet.
But a certain amount of "people are capable of communicating with each other" is important for the sort of game we want to have here ("Radical Anthropology- the RPG" would have a *lot* less combat.)
TBH I think it's kind of weird that elves all speak the same language, even if they live in opposite sides of the planet.
But a certain amount of "people are capable of communicating with each other" is important for the sort of game we want to have here ("Radical Anthropology- the RPG" would have a *lot* less combat.)
Never underestimate an anthropologist or linguist with a grudge. Or a voulge.
As far as the racial languages, that actually seems like a weirder concept. Elven has a slight excuse with the aiudara that can keep them together, and dwarves are stereotypically conservative enough that they might have dwarven language institutes (tho that hasn't helped with French staying entirely the same, has it?), but past that ... gnomes love variety, halflings just hang out, and orcs and goblins aren't known for rigid social structures.