Whirling throw upwards


Rules Discussion


So I have been building a monk grappler and came across the whirling throw feat. So the wording on whirling throw says

"You propel your grabbed or restrained foe a great distance. You can throw the creature any distance up to 10 feet, plus 5 feet × your Strength modifier. If you successfully throw the creature, it takes bludgeoning damage equal to your Strength modifier plus 1d6 per 10 feet you threw it."

This doesn't pose a restriction on where you can throw them. Meaning I assume you could throw a creature up, down, behind, or in front of the user depending on the situation. Am I missing something or is this just purposefully worded without a required direction to allow that?


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I'd say a vertical throw up is out of the question. Aside from the physics not making sense, the creature would take fall damage which always knocks them prone which is pretty explicitly not the default success state of the feat.

You can make the case otherwise, but PF2 has really empowered GMs to nip weird RAW stuff like this in the bud so don't expect it to fly at most tables.

Liberty's Edge

The vertical dimension is not well handled by most of the rules with the exception of those that are specifically tailored for it such as Wall Spells and Athletics Skill Usage for the purpose of jumping.

This is going to be a big old question mark pointing toward rule 0 because it just isn't very well defined since Squares/Spaces aren't really defined in 3 dimensions ... like at all. It's almost all up to GM fiat.

That said I don't think that allowing this is a good idea because it would likely end up causing unintended cascading consequences such as exploits to trigger fall damage. At the end of the day, you should probably just rely on your GM to make a call on this if you're looking to use it in this way, even if only in limited circumstances.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Yeah, this has come up before.

Some people point to Forced Movement rules and don't allow whirling throw to toss creatures anywhere hazardous, including midair:

Quote:
f you’re pushed or pulled, you can usually be moved through hazardous terrain, pushed off a ledge, or the like. Abilities that reposition you in some other way can’t put you in such dangerous places unless they specify otherwise. In all cases, the GM makes the final call if there’s doubt on where forced movement can move a creature.

For Whirling throw I consider that last line relevant in my own game. I think whirling throw into dangerous places is totally appropriate. Anyone wanting to do Whirling Throw upward to get bonus damage and cause the target to fall prone without a critical success, though? Absolutely never going to happen. And that last sentence is the only RAW backing that my statement needs.


Yeah basically the way i GM it, and the way that both of my Mnks with Whirling throw have been GMed by others, is treating it like a manuver throw like those seen in movies.

So you basically grab someone and toss him.

In all cases so far I only allowed and was allowed 2D movement BUT in all cases as well throwing people off cliffs, in water, and etc has been allowed.

It just makes sense.


If you've got Whirling Throw in your group, someone needs Blade Barrier. This is known.


Half a year ago I played a monk with whirling throw for a one-shot and the DM allowed this initially.

Believe me, it is too strong and it creates a new set of problems, like making creatures fall into other creatures squares and treating vertical forced movement as movement through difficult terrain or not. Don't allow it. Even if you can make a case for it RAW , to me it is clear that RAI the feat only allows to move people around horizontally.

Liberty's Edge

I have no problem with the visuals being an upward throw. The results will still be the same as a horizontal throw though.


Captain Morgan wrote:
If you've got Whirling Throw in your group, someone needs Blade Barrier. This is known.

My monsters learned this lesson the hard way when the monk and cleric discovered that little trick.

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