
Squiggit |

Changing the rules related to a single class is a much smaller change to the system than changing a fundamental skill usage available to a large percentage of skills in the game. The only sweeping rules change was in regards to items and storage, and that's still a lot lower impact than a Recall Knowledge change would be.
I'd certainly be happy to be proved wrong, but it seems really unlikely to me that a change to Recall Knowledge is gonna happen.
Is it though? Adding another sentence or two to RK to expand its functionality seems less systemic than rewriting the rules for containers or fundamentally changing the definition of an attack roll or giving a class two or three new class features.
I'm not saying it will or won't either way, but I also think you're overselling how hard it would be to tweak RK and underselling how much Paizo's shown willingness to make sweeping rules changes after the fact.

Calybos1 |
Update, for what it's worth: Our group has resolved the issue, mainly by 'getting over it' and deciding that making Recall Knowledge checks isn't very important in Second Edition. We still fail more often than not, so we just don't attempt them very often and try to live without the knowledge.
The class-specific abilities only trigger on a critical success anyway, so during combat the investigator and ranger just do a perfunctory "Check for a nat-20... nope" and keep going.

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If you are starting a new campaign and have an idea of the theme, i.e. dealing with lots of undead, outsiders, aberrations... Additional Lore can be a great skill feat to take. It automatically improves as you level, going to expert at 3rd, master at 7th, and Legendary at 15th. Being a lore, it will be a lower DC, and so, much more likely to be successful.

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Update, for what it's worth: Our group has resolved the issue, mainly by 'getting over it' and deciding that making Recall Knowledge checks isn't very important in Second Edition. We still fail more often than not, so we just don't attempt them very often and try to live without the knowledge.
The class-specific abilities only trigger on a critical success anyway, so during combat the investigator and ranger just do a perfunctory "Check for a nat-20... nope" and keep going.
Yes without team coordination it could be tough. Were your characters by any chance just keeping the recall knowledge at trained?
In general I feel that is part of PF2 though your players fail a lot on things. So if you are failing on a recall knowledge check you are focused in most like you would have failed an attack too!
Most things on monsters can easily be figured out through fighting though so as long as you are putting your 3 actions to use you probably don't NEED recall knowledge though. Like I said previously I definitely feel recall knowledge is in a weird spot.

Captain Morgan |
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Update, for what it's worth: Our group has resolved the issue, mainly by 'getting over it' and deciding that making Recall Knowledge checks isn't very important in Second Edition. We still fail more often than not, so we just don't attempt them very often and try to live without the knowledge.
The class-specific abilities only trigger on a critical success anyway, so during combat the investigator and ranger just do a perfunctory "Check for a nat-20... nope" and keep going.
.. what? A ranger or investigator that is getting a free knowledge check every turn (or somewhat less often for the ranger, but at least once a battle) should be succeeding on some of those below a 20. Not very often if it is on an untrained skill, but there's should be stuff that falls under their existing skills.
Also, the Ranger can get the 10th level feat to improve Monster Hunter and use Nature for everything, which definitely improves the odds.
If the players are getting successes but not useful information for it, they should talk to their GM.

Kelseus |
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.. what? A ranger or investigator that is getting a free knowledge check every turn (or somewhat less often for the ranger, but at least once a battle) should be succeeding on some of those below a 20. Not very often if it is on an untrained skill, but there's should be stuff that falls under their existing skills.
Also, the Ranger can get the 10th level feat to improve Monster Hunter and use Nature for everything, which definitely improves the odds.
If the players are getting successes but not useful information for it, they should talk to their GM.
At level 10, a Ranger with 18 Wis and master in Nature with Master Monster Hunter has a +20 to nature (assuming no bonus items). This gives them a 50/50 (needing an 11 or less) to succeed at Recall Knowledge for a level 13 creature (i.e. a severe solo threat).
If they have the Outwit Hunter's edge and a +2 item bonus to nature, this climbs up to a +24, meaning they fail on a level 10 monster on a 2 or 1 only, and have a 50% on all creatures level 15 or lower.
An investigator by investing in only a level 1 feat, can get a free RK when devising a stratagem, something they should be doing most turns anyways. With a skill increase every level, at level 10 they have 4 Master and 1 expert skill. Even if only half are in RK skills that means they can easily have +21 in Society and Occultism, with a +19 in Arcana. Even their untrained ones are rolling between a +12 and +15 (14 wis). Even the +12 will succeed on a level 10 foe on a 15 or better, or 30% chance.

Calybos1 |
Captain Morgan wrote:.. what? A ranger or investigator that is getting a free knowledge check every turn (or somewhat less often for the ranger, but at least once a battle) should be succeeding on some of those below a 20. Not very often if it is on an untrained skill, but there's should be stuff that falls under their existing skills.
Also, the Ranger can get the 10th level feat to improve Monster Hunter and use Nature for everything, which definitely improves the odds.
If the players are getting successes but not useful information for it, they should talk to their GM.
At level 10, a Ranger with 18 Wis and master in Nature with Master Monster Hunter has a +20 to nature (assuming no bonus items). This gives them a 50/50 (needing an 11 or less) to succeed at Recall Knowledge for a level 13 creature (i.e. a severe solo threat).
If they have the Outwit Hunter's edge and a +2 item bonus to nature, this climbs up to a +24, meaning they fail on a level 10 monster on a 2 or 1 only, and have a 50% on all creatures level 15 or lower.
An investigator by investing in only a level 1 feat, can get a free RK when devising a stratagem, something they should be doing most turns anyways. With a skill increase every level, at level 10 they have 4 Master and 1 expert skill. Even if only half are in RK skills that means they can easily have +21 in Society and Occultism, with a +19 in Arcana. Even their untrained ones are rolling between a +12 and +15 (14 wis). Even the +12 will succeed on a level 10 foe on a 15 or better, or 30% chance.
Critical success. We're looking for critical successes, i.e., nat 20s only. Regular success is not enough, only criticals.

GM OfAnything |
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Kelseus wrote:Critical success. We're looking for critical successes, i.e., nat 20s only. Regular success is not enough, only criticals.Captain Morgan wrote:.. what? A ranger or investigator that is getting a free knowledge check every turn (or somewhat less often for the ranger, but at least once a battle) should be succeeding on some of those below a 20. Not very often if it is on an untrained skill, but there's should be stuff that falls under their existing skills.
Also, the Ranger can get the 10th level feat to improve Monster Hunter and use Nature for everything, which definitely improves the odds.
If the players are getting successes but not useful information for it, they should talk to their GM.
At level 10, a Ranger with 18 Wis and master in Nature with Master Monster Hunter has a +20 to nature (assuming no bonus items). This gives them a 50/50 (needing an 11 or less) to succeed at Recall Knowledge for a level 13 creature (i.e. a severe solo threat).
If they have the Outwit Hunter's edge and a +2 item bonus to nature, this climbs up to a +24, meaning they fail on a level 10 monster on a 2 or 1 only, and have a 50% on all creatures level 15 or lower.
An investigator by investing in only a level 1 feat, can get a free RK when devising a stratagem, something they should be doing most turns anyways. With a skill increase every level, at level 10 they have 4 Master and 1 expert skill. Even if only half are in RK skills that means they can easily have +21 in Society and Occultism, with a +19 in Arcana. Even their untrained ones are rolling between a +12 and +15 (14 wis). Even the +12 will succeed on a level 10 foe on a 15 or better, or 30% chance.
They specified Master Monster Hunter.
In addition, you gain the benefits of Monster Hunter (and Monster Warden, if you have it) on a success as well as a critical success.