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So Order of the Blossom gets 4D6 Sneak Attack, yay. Nothing special until you slap it on a Slayer, giving them a Rogue's full 10D6 Sneak Attack. Not bad, but Sneak Attack still kinda sucks.
Vanguard gets Tactician, VMC Cavalier gets Tactician, AND the Greater thereof... something the Vanguard would have never gotten on their own.
You get a Challenge, as well, but it doesn't do you a whole lot of good unless you're tossing out spells or SLA's... Good thing Order of the Blossom also gives you SLA's! Can grab Deific Obedience at 13 for even more, if you are so inclined.
Even in the "standard" level 1-12 framework, this doubles up your Tactician AND your Sneak Attack! If you have racial SLA's, you can be making use of the Challenge, too.
Is this as good as I think it is? Did I break it?
Vanguard Slayer
VMC Cavalier
1. Studied Target +1 (move action)
1. Lookout
1(VMC): Order of the Blossom
1(level): Combat Reflexes
2. Tactician
...
3. Sneak Attack 1D6
3(VMC): Challenge -1
4. Vanguard's Bond
5. 2nd Studied Target +2
5(level):
6. Slayer Talent
...
6. Sneak Attack 2D6
6(VMC): Challenge -2
7. Studied Target (swift action)
7. Ever Ready
7(VMC): Sneak Attack 3D6
8. Slayer Talent
...
8(VMC): Sneak Attack 4D6
9. Sneak Attack 5D6
9(level):
10. 3rd Studied Target +3
10. Advanced Talents
... Assassinate (duh)
10(VMC): Challenge -3
11(VMC): Tactician
...
12. Advanced Talents
... Armored Marauder?
12. Sneak Attack 6D6
13. Slayer's Advance 1/day
13(level):
14. Quarry
14. Advanced Talents
... Armored Swiftness?
14(VMC): Challenge -4
14(VMC): Sneak Attack 7D6
15. 4th Studied Target +4
15. Sneak Attack 8D6
15(VMC): Fey Enchantments 3/day
... Animal Messenger, Entrall, Hideous Laughter, Suggestion
16. Advanced Talents
...
16(VMC): Fey Enchantments 7/day
... Animal Messenger, Charm Monster, Entrall, Hideous Laughter, Suggestion, Terrible Remorse
17. Slayer's Advance 2/day
17(level): Chain Challenge?
18. Advanced Talents
...
18. Sneak Attack 9D6
18(VMC): Challenge -5
19. Improved Quarry
19(VMC): Greater Tactician
20. 5th Studied Target +5
20. Advanced Talents
...
20. Master Slayer
20(VMC): Sneak Attack 10D6
Literally no feedback on this? I thought it all worked out pretty well... like a Cavalier, but way better... huh.
Any ideas for a specific Deific Obedience that may fit well?
Could the Challenge be used to weaponize some racial SLA's? If so, which one? Halfling Jinx?
If you have access to extra Slayer Talents via FCB, you can trade them for additional uses of Tactician (if you need more such uses).
Feedback, huh?
The SLAs really come in too late. You're looking at 1st-2nd level spells at level 15, and 3rd-4th at level 16. These are at least 4 spell levels behind a full spellcaster which means that they do not have the effect you'd expect of spells of that level, even if the challenge keeps their save DCs somewhat viable.
Wrecking the enemies' saves may be nice for someone else in the party but that depends a lot on party composition (in this case the other caster needs to count as a fey), and providing that sort of debuff often isn't satisfying. Which is my problem with halfling jinx too BTW.
It's a solid amount of sneak attack but there's nothing I see there to make it easy to apply. No feats to assist, and both kinds are the type which get turned off by dim light or other concealment.
AVR, I always respect your feedback, thank you. No BS, I always find your criticism helpful. This is very much the feedback I was looking for.
Not entirely overlooked, however, as I do not actually put a lot of stock into Sneak Attack... how do you guarantee Sneak Attack? You flank with your friends!!! Everyone SO worried about locking in their own stupid Sneak Attack... it's not about me, or mine.
Flanking helps everyone, and I worry about my position on the battlefield in relation to my friends WAY more than any other selfish strategy involving setting stupid freaking Sneak Attack. Yeah, it's nice to have IF YOU FLANK WITH YOUR FRIENDS, otherwise screw Sneak Attack. Sneak Attack sucks all the D, in a row.
As for the SLA's, that is what I needed help with. Is there a race with a racial SLA that could benefit from the Challenge? I mean, it's not like Slayer's had a Challenge to begin with, so ignoring doesn't hurt that much. It would be nice to use it earlier, though.
Glad I'm of help. I worry whether I'm being too negative sometimes.
Anyway maybe a gnome? They're not generally what I'd think of as cavalier-material, but a dash of fey-themed cavalier on a slayer might work. Several alternate racial abilities of theirs have relevant saves. With use magic device skill and a wand of recharge innate magic they can use those more than 1/day. It won't stay relevant forever, but then many campaigns don't last even as long as PFS.
Aasimar and tieflings tend to have a 1/day SLA with a save, tho' not all do. The SLA is 2nd level so the wand of recharge' can't help. Also they have darkvision which may help make sneak attack work when some bastard turns off the lights.
I have an odd feeling that VMC Cavalier (Order of the Blossom) could work extraordinarily well on an arcane trickster. It'd require a GM willing to allow regular and variant multiclassing on the same character of course.
I do tend to build these things on my own table rules, which are definitely not all tables' rules. And I don't normally encourage VMC unless a Prestige Class is planned... Prestige Classes generally suck, so having VMC continue helps a little bit.
But there ARE classes with enough features and bonus feats to make VMC viable, so it's never disallowed unless I am allowing gestalt. You don't get to VMC and gestalt. Just like I don't allow Prestige Classes to gestalt.
Not entirely overlooked, however, as I do not actually put a lot of stock into Sneak Attack... how do you guarantee Sneak Attack? You flank with your friends!!! Everyone SO worried about locking in their own stupid Sneak Attack... it's not about me, or mine.
Flanking helps everyone, and I worry about my position on the battlefield in relation to my friends WAY more than any other selfish strategy involving setting stupid freaking Sneak Attack. Yeah, it's nice to have IF YOU FLANK WITH YOUR FRIENDS, otherwise screw Sneak Attack. Sneak Attack sucks all the D, in a row.
It's just that based on our shared (probably) personal experience flanking isn't all that reliable. In a typical 4 person party you might have 2 melee characters, and often it's more successful if each character blocks some different enemies from getting to the ranged/caster characters behind.
Of course if you have a party composition that has more than 2 melee characters it can be a more reliable method of meeting sneak attacks requirements.
Most people prefer to find a method of achieving sneak attack without needing someone else to be involved, because it's not reliable.
Personally I don't VMC all that well, but honestly I would have avoided something granting sneak attack rather than going for it.