Our party encountered a monster 3 levels above our own today and we were forced to flee. How do we deal with this type of threat? The creature needed to roll a 14 or more to Crit us and a 4 or more to hit. It's only weakness was reflex so we were able to trip it but it's simply not enough of a debuff. In order to Demoralize we needed to roll a 14 or more which isn't easy either. What can we do? The party consisted of two melee martials, a healer, a wizard and a Bard.
Use the Aid action to improve your chance to hit it?
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Our party encountered a monster 3 levels above our own today and we were forced to flee. How do we deal with this type of threat? The creature needed to roll a 14 or more to Crit us and a 4 or more to hit. It's only weakness was reflex so we were able to trip it but it's simply not enough of a debuff. In order to Demoralize we needed to roll a 14 or more which isn't easy either. What can we do? The party consisted of two melee martials, a healer, a wizard and a Bard.If its a foe you -have- to kill or capture rather than just avoid/survive, then do some research on the foe, using appropriate Recall Knowledge checks. Figure out a way to act on its weaknesses or lure it into a battlefield which is either to your benefit or its detriment, or ideally both.
Spend some gold on consumables to buff up yourselves or target its weaknesses.
Or the old standby of - stay away from it and fish for ranged attack crits to whittle it down.
Yeah. Tips are just going to amount to "get good" unless we can get some more info on the creature, and the only way to do that without cheating is for your party to use Recall Knowledge, Gather Information, or other research options to find out more and report back to us. The one thing you can probably tell us is your level and market access. That way we can see what options are available to you.
That said... APL+3 fights are brutal but not unwinnable. I can't tell you how many times I've thought I was looking at a TPK, only for the party to clinch a victory with no deaths. You have a well composed party there, and they should be able to do this.
Prebuffing can also be a really big difference maker, as can other preparations if you know exactly where the monster will be. Set some Snares and then lure the monster to you with ranged attacks. If it is a fiend, get some oil of alignment and get your weapons geared up beforehand. Cast heroism from far enough away that they won't hear you do it, then throw up a greater invisibility on whoever your glass cannon is just before you kick down the door.
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TLDR: Synergize with your party to protect the people who will inevitably be staring down multiple attacks from the monster, and try to play keep-away as best you can.
Level + 3 fights are tough! Fun, but tough.
I've only played them from the GM side of the table. But here are my thoughts on it.
As a GM, I salivate when players end their turn next to a monster that tough. Well, part of me does, and part of me thinks "oh man, that poor player is hosed..." If ever a monster that tough has an opportunity to dump 3 attacks into a party, it's a rough, rough round. As you note above, hitting on a 4 is basically guaranteed. But the next hit (most monsters have an agile option) will be coming at an 8 or better, which is still quite good. Final strike hits on a 12 or better. I have excellent odds of landing 2 hits, and I could very well hit all 3.
So, don't end a turn next to a creature that powerful if you can avoid it. You'll want flanking bonuses. They will feel so very necessary, and to an extent they are. Especially if you have a Rogue. But if you can make the monster have to move to re-engage, that will drop it's damage per round by 1/3. If you can somehow make it move twice to re-engage, that will drop it's damage per round by 2/3. You are drinking from the holy grail if you can somehow make it move 3 times to re-engage, because then it didn't attack that round. Or maybe it has a ranged option, but by and large ranged is less threatening to the party.
My rule of thumb for whether I should end in melee with a really strong foe: Is my party set up to capitalize on the fact that I'm face-tanking this thing? i.e. will 1 or more allies get Flanking, or will somebody be tripping and I have an attack of opportunity, or something like that?
Your party's spellcasters are better at helping the party than they are at hurting the monster. At least, they are against a +3 level monster. Buffs always have their effect, but your miss chance with spells means you may not get a desirable effect from an offensive spell. The Cleric will be Healing like their life depends on it (and it will). A Wizard casting Haste on a Rogue allows for a stride in, 2 stab attempts, and a stride out. Even "minor" buffs like Bless help tremendously. You have a bard so that's not going to be what your cleric focuses on (unless your bard is high enough level for Dirge, then Bless helps again). But you get the idea. Boost up the party reliably rather than debuff down the monster unreliably.
Magic Missile is great. Lower end damage, but automatically hits.
Spells that have interesting effects on failures can be good. Maybe a -5 foot speed penalty doesn't sound that great, but if it means the fighter can Stride away once and the monster has to Stride twice to keep up, even if that's only for 1 round, that is 100% worth any spell slot in a boss fight.
Try to use the terrain to your advantage. This can be highly dependent on your GM or on the published adventure you're running... but most dungeons have corridors and doors right? Do a tactical withdrawal through a doorway and have somebody close the door. If you all moved away from the door after it closed... and you all attacked once before scooting... then you probably did SOME damage, and the monster now has to Stride to the door, Interact to open it, and Stride to get to the party. You've won that round. Likewise an archer, cleric and wizard on an elevated balcony can go full DPS (or heal or whatever it is that needs doing) without much worry of counter attack. Some effects allow a monster to take an action to make a save to get rid of the effect (right now I'm thinking of Prone and the Pinned crit effect from bows). The monster is nasty enough that it will definitely auto-succeed (I mean, there isn't even a roll for getting up from Prone). But it still takes up 1 of its 3 actions. Some spells create difficult terrain or make a barrier that needs to be walked around. Illusory terrain can be tricky depending on your GM, but your argument can and should be that the monster needs a reason to disbelieve, so if you create a gaping chasm, real or imagined, the monster ought to react accordingly. Even if it wants to disbelieve, it needs to take an action to sort it out.
Shields. The inverse of how easy the monster is hitting you is happening for your party. Your 1st attacks will not be easy to land, much less the 2nd or 3rd. So raise a shield. If the monster is hitting on a 4 and critting on a 14, having it hit on a 6 instead hardly feels like a win, but having it crit on a 16 feels much better. Crit chance went down by nearly 1/3 just by raising a shield. That is not insignificant. Doesn't have to be a shield, either. Any sort of action that is defensively oriented helps. Take cover behind a pillar that's in the middle of the room. Drink a Mistform Elixer to give a small miss chance. Cast Blur. Consider the difference between a Fighter being hit on a 4 who strides in and strikes twice, hitting once, to a Fighter who strides in, Strikes, and raises a shield, and who has a Cleric cast Forbidding Ward an a Wizard cast Blur on them. Still only hit once, but now they are hit on a 7+ and crit on a 17+, and then only if the monster passes the DC 5 concealment check. If your Bard is high enough level to cast Dirge of Doom, it's hit on an 8 and crit on an 18 now, which is pretty good.
TLDR: Synergize with your party to protect the people who will inevitably be staring down multiple attacks from the monster, and try to play keep-away as best you can.
That's all really great advice... if the monster doesn't have AoE and a big reach. If it does you are probably gonna get stuck in its hit box.
We are level 1 :| with very little gold.
We are level 1 :| with very little gold.
See, that's ok, because it also informs us as to what kind of options the monster has. At that level they usually lack ranged attacks, so the easiest path to victory is probably keeping your distance and plinking with arrows. Did it fly or climb in your last fight? If not, you may be able to get yourself high enough for it to never be able to reach you. How big was it? Did it chase you when you fled?
We are level 1 :| with very little gold.See, that's ok, because it also informs us as to what kind of options the monster has. At that level they usually lack ranged attacks, so the easiest path to victory is probably keeping your distance and plinking with arrows. Did it fly or climb in your last fight? If not, you may be able to get yourself high enough for it to never be able to reach you. How big was it? Did it chase you when you fled?
It was large size but lacked any reach. It had no ranged attack. We made the mistake of engaging it in melee and got lit up. It was fairly fast more than 30ft of movement. It can't fly and not sure if it has a climb speed, it was a four legged beast, I assume it can climb. Our cantrips won't due much damage to this creature, it's got a lot of HP and high AC, it can drop one of us per round.
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We are level 1 :| with very little gold.
A Level +3 fight is typically considered 'Severe- or extreme-threat boss'
Source
Core Rulebook pg. 488 1.1
Severe-threat encounters are the hardest encounters most groups of characters can consistently defeat. These encounters are most appropriate for important moments in your story, such as confronting a final boss. Bad luck, poor tactics, or a lack of resources due to prior encounters can easily turn a severe-threat encounter against the characters, and a wise group keeps the option to disengage open.
Extreme-threat encounters are so dangerous that they are likely to be an even match for the characters, particularly if the characters are low on resources. This makes them too challenging for most uses. An extreme-threat encounter might be appropriate for a fully rested group of characters that can go all-out, for the climactic encounter at the end of an entire campaign, or for a group of veteran players using advanced tactics and teamwork.
Given the typically limited resources of a level 1 party, it sounds like this falls into the 'Extreme Threat' encounter level that is generally reserved for the climatic end of an entire campaign.
My advice: Ask your GM is you are really supposed to face this creature at this point. If you are, well, new character creation is pretty quick these days...
Anyone roll knowledge on it? I assume it didn't AoE when ran? What kind of terrain?
we learned it's weakest save was Reflex. It's outdoors the terrain in a city environment, there are areas for cover, easy to run away. It didn't have an aoe attack.
It is only one creature with no ranged attack - it may be slightly faster than the party, but can only chase one of you at once, and being large can't fit through most doorways.
If you split up the party (everyone tries to maintain a 60 foot distance from the monster (and from each other so it can only chase one of you at a time) you can wear it down with bows and spells. Whoever it happens to be chasing at any particular time can use all of their actions to run (meaning the monster likely has to use most of its actions to catch up) and if it catches up, they duck into a doorway while someone else gets its attention.
Additionally, you can get creative and try and set traps for it.
A ditch filled with spikes and oil that can be set alight.
Some heavy crates suspended above an alleyway via a rope that can be cut.
A series of barricades or obstacles with medium sized gaps that your party can pass though (while it has to treat the barricades as difficult terrain)
Also, over a third of the spells available to a level 1 wizard have some kind of an effect that can slow down the monster in some way.