Worst Prestige Class ever?


Advice


I had an evil idea today: in the mini-campaign I'm about to run, which starts at level 9, what if I offered to have a player start at level 10 if he played an awful Prestige Class? He has to take levels in it until the campaign ends (around level 12), but he'd get to start at level 10 and have level 10 starting gold as well. Heck I might even go level 11.

I don't think I'll do it, but it might be a fun thought exercise. What's the worst PrC you'd make a PC play if they wanted to be a level or two ahead of everyone else?

Pathfinder Chronicler comes to mind as a possibility along with Darkfire Adept or Daggermark Poisoner.

J

Silver Crusade

rage prophet


Darechaser is pretty bad. Full BAB and a couple of good saves, but the actual class abilities are sufficiently poor that you're better off not using them - fatigue after using a really minor bonus is going to be a pain.

Master spy is a downgraded rogue.

Noble scion is useful if you can use/abuse leadership, but otherwise is strikingly bad. It's probably the easiest PrC to justify enforcing in-character.


Master Spy... ninja'ed.

Daggermark Poisoner isn't TOO bad for an Underground Chemist, mixed with Poisoner or Spy or Toxic Talon. You get into doing cool Alchemist stuff faster than waiting until level 10 for Discoveries in Underground Chemist, it switches you to a good Fort save. And is not terrible for an "Alchemist" with Sneak Attack and Bombs... which the Vivisectionist cannot offer. Is Vivisectionist still better? Probably, but surely Daggermark Poisoner cannot be THE WORST. At level 14, you end up with BAB +10, bases saves of +6/+7/+4, and +4D6 Sneak Attack... has to be better than straight Rogue, right?


Prophet of Kalistrade? It doesn't do much, and their ability to advance in levels would be contingent on them maintaining a weird code.


Rage Prophet although not apparent until you do the math vs a barbarian/oracle. At least it wasn't to me.

I liked the Darechaser...however on a more critical inspection this morning after avr's post...okay damnit it's not that good. If you can use adrenaline rush and rage at the same time it could do some crazy stuff. Not sure how useful but... :P

I don't care I like the Prophet of Kalistrade thematically. I think I could make it work.

Master Spy is probably pretty bad but I have an idea for an AP where it could pay off insanely well. ;)

Stalwart Defender seems kinda crap to me. "Hey guys wait up...hey enemies come over here and fight me. Oooh poo..." :(

The Exchange

There's plenty of Prestige Classes that don't do much, but finding one that's terrible is hard. Since you're going to give at least one extra level, you've got to take that into account, especially when looking at spell levels. (Full disclosure: I love prestige classes, and will happily play one that "isn't as good" as a base class if it gets to do something unique.)

Of the classes you initially mentioned, the Pathfinder Chronicler can actually be quite effective, especially if you are going to let the player start at level 11. Giving a melee martial a free move (enabling a full-attack) shouldn't be underestimated. Deep pockets can be very handy as well.

Daggermark Poisoner is one of those "eh" classes, mainly because of how much poisons cost in PF1. Nicely mixes some abilities of several classes, but overall too expensive for most campaigns.

The Blackfire Adepts (and their sworn enemies the Riftwardens) suffer greatly from the lost spell levels. Their abilities can't effect the things a character of their level will be facing. Blackfire Pact should be a defining power. If you allow the Prestigious Spellcaster feat, their utility may rise back up.

-----------------------

If you're looking for a Prestige Class that is really bad:

Green Faith Acolyte - It's thematically intended to be a prestige class for druids, but it's a terrible choice for druids from a power perspective. They are essentially cutting their animal companion and wild shape progression in half as well as giving up other abilities for some incredibly situational (and minor) abilities. However: if you give an extra level, they would be one level ahead on spells.

Prophet of Kalistrade - Don't get me wrong, I love the lore of this class and played one for many levels. But none of the abilities stack with ANYTHING. Spell levels don't stack, you don't get any feats, its got 3/4 BAB, and all the abilities are situational abilities.

Technomancer - Kinda silly, but if you're playing a game with no technology, the only thing he's going to possibly be able to use from this class is the irradiate spell.

The Exchange

Some thoughts on other suggestions:

Darechaser is one of those that isn't actively bad but doesn't do very much. The base Adrenaline Rush ability basically does nothing. The Dare and Adrenaline Deed abilities give very tiny bonuses or very situational abilites and only for very short periods of time. It is full BAB, so the extra starting level(s) may allow him to take some general feats that end up being quite good.

Rage Prophet - Weaker than an oracle of battle. But not enough to be truly bad and with one key caveat: If he gets to character level 13, the Ragecaster ability to add his Con modifier to save DCs is AMAZING. It allows what is probably the highest DCs available to PCs.

Master Spy is definitely campaign dependent. Decent in an intrigue campaign, terrible otherwise. But even in an intrigue campaign - a vigilante does it better nowadays.

Noble Scion - Depends on your handling of Leadership. If this player gets an extra level but can recruit a cohort one level lower than himself, you just added an extra character. His cohort is the same strength as the other players. He might be slightly weaker (though the Regional Expertise feats help close the gap), but not extremely so. If you take away Leadership, it's a weaker fighter with some extra pocket change.

Stalwart Defender - Definitely not putting this one in the "bad" category. I've seen many very effective Defenders (usually using reach/trip builds).

The Exchange

I'm struggling to come up with more choices for you. The extra level is what throws it off. I think it's likely that the choices have to be:

1) Not full BAB.
2) Not full caster progression.
3) Not –1 caster progression (unless all other abilities are useless).

I keep coming back to the Master Spy, Daggermark Poisoner, and Prophet of Kalistrade. Especially the Prophet of Kalistrade.


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The Daggermark Poisoner is open to horrific abuse from crafting. The one in Dave the Commoner was earning over a million gp a day from crafting poisons.

But other than that, meh.

I think the problem with the OP question is really around what other levels the PC is required to take, and what it's compared to. Many PrCs can look bad at the wrong level or with the wrong previous classes, and many are mediocre compared to a decent pure class but nevertheless the best way to achieve what they do...Mystic Theurge and Arcane Trickster, for example.

Shadow Lodge

Definitely not noble scion. You would essentially be letting them play any level 9 character they wanted with extra gold, plus a level 10 character that has 5 levels in an ok prc. That is overpowered, not under.

A lot of PrCs are hyper specialized, so they can be really good in specific campaigns, and really awful in others.


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To be clear, noble scion was on my list only if leadership wasn't going to be effective - the cohort/followers are off holding the castle or whatever.

Silver Crusade

Arcane trickster is actually pretty good if you go with eldritch rogue and grab accomplished sneak attacker at level 3. Suddenly you qualify to go into arcane trickster at level 5.


rorek55 wrote:
Arcane trickster is actually pretty good if you go with eldritch rogue and grab accomplished sneak attacker at level 3. Suddenly you qualify to go into arcane trickster at level 5.

I don't know why you would, though... Eldritch Scouldrel is 3/4 BAB, might as well ride it out to level 8. Go into Arcane Trickster at level 9. Unless you are in a hurry to drop to 1/2 BAB, then by all means, enter Arcane Trickster at 5.

Waiting until level 9 means you don't waste a feat on Accomplished Sneak Attacker that can't even be retrained later because it was used as a prerquisite for something else (early entrance into the Prestige Class).

Arcane Trickster can be a lot of fun, it just seems that people ruin it by rushing into it.

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