A friend of mine wants to work with this, and I don't see any problem, because Enduring Armor is Armor Bonus, and Armor attunement bonus is Enhancement Bonus, but I still curious.
Can ABP bonus work on Endunring Armor at all?
Thanks.
They don't "work on" each other, but they do stack. It's mostly the same as mage armor.
They don't "work on" each other, but they do stack. It's mostly the same as mage armor.
"stack"? How?
Can you not just add the Enhancement Bonus from Armor attunement on Enduring Armor, since they are not "same bonus" factor?Thanks for answering.
I’ve had some time to sleep on it and the problem is that ABP is not meant to be used without some heavy GM adjudication. It was a half-finished untested ruleset. There won’t be an official answer. You’ll have to fill in the blanks yourself.
If you weren’t using ABP, then you wouldn’t be gettting magic armor bonuses to your Enduring armor, so not getting the bonus from ABP to your mage armor would be the best parallel.
The best way to look at it is that Automatic Bonus Progression replaces the enhancement bonus regular armor would get in a normal game.
Enduring armor is an armor bonus to AC.
The enhancement bonus that applies is an enhancement to armor bonus provided by whatever armor you wear.
If you weren't using ABP the armor you might wear (which you might not be proficient in or take penalties to your spell casting) even if it was +5 mithral chain or whatever is still just providing an AC bonus.
The same as Enduring Armor.
So no, they wont stack or do anything together. They're redundant sources of armor bonus to AC.
Enduring armor is basically a replacement to mage armor or bracers or armor, which are replacements for more standard armor because they lack the arcane spell failure penalty.
I’ve had some time to sleep on it and the problem is that ABP is not meant to be used without some heavy GM adjudication. It was a half-finished untested ruleset. There won’t be an official answer. You’ll have to fill in the blanks yourself.
If you weren’t using ABP, then you wouldn’t be gettting magic armor bonuses to your Enduring armor, so not getting the bonus from ABP to your mage armor would be the best parallel.
The best way to look at it is that Automatic Bonus Progression replaces the enhancement bonus regular armor would get in a normal game.
Enduring armor is an armor bonus to AC.
The enhancement bonus that applies is an enhancement to armor bonus provided by whatever armor you wear.
If you weren't using ABP the armor you might wear (which you might not be proficient in or take penalties to your spell casting) even if it was +5 mithral chain or whatever is still just providing an AC bonus.
The same as Enduring Armor.
So no, they wont stack or do anything together. They're redundant sources of armor bonus to AC.
Enduring armor is basically a replacement to mage armor or bracers or armor, which are replacements for more standard armor because they lack the arcane spell failure penalty.
Thank you guys again.
But how they're redudant sourcers of armor bonus? Well, Enduring Armor is Armor Bonus, and ABP is Enhancement bonus. I'm bit confused here.
They're redundant because the enhancement bonus is an enhancement bonus to the armor bonus of whatever armor you would wear.
Magic Weapons and Armor
Source Pathfinder Unchained pg. 157
In this system, magic weapons, armor, and shields never have enhancement bonuses of their own; those bonuses are granted only through attunement.
In general, magic armor protects the wearer to a greater extent than nonmagical armor. Magic armor bonuses are enhancement bonuses, never rise above +5, and stack with regular armor bonuses (and with shield and magic shield enhancement bonuses). All magic armor is also masterwork armor, reducing armor check penalties by 1.
An enhancement bonus represents an increase in the sturdiness and/or effectiveness of armor or natural armor, or the effectiveness of a weapon, or a general bonus to an ability score. Multiple enhancement bonuses on the same object (in the case of armor and weapons), creature (in the case of natural armor), or ability score do not stack. Only the highest enhancement bonus applies. Since enhancement bonuses to armor or natural armor effectively increase the armor or natural armor’s bonus to AC, they don’t apply against touch attacks.
So the enhancement bonus on your armor, is an enhancement to the armor bonus it provides to you. They're not two different things, it's an enhancement of the original armor bonus that the armor provides.
Enduring Armor also provides an armor bonus.
It's very obvious that the armor bonus from armor wouldn't stack with the armor bonus from Enduring armor, they're the same type of bonus and the same type of bonus never stacks (with the exception of dodge or anything else that might specifically call it out).
So if you transition to a system which uses ABP, you get armor attunement bonus which provides an enhancement bonus to the armor you wear (including clothes which have a value of +0 armor).
So when calculating your AC your for a +2 breastplate you're not adding in +6 for a breastplate + your dex + 2 enhancement bonus. You're adding in 8 + your dex + whatever else you might have like natural armor (or dodge or deflection etc).
Claxon, I commend your patience explaining that. Well done.
All of that is true. But also, it’s not like allowing them to stack should break your game either. ABP is basically house rules. The GM is expected to make it work however they think it should work.
All of that is true. But also, it’s not like allowing them to stack should break your game either. ABP is basically house rules. The GM is expected to make it work however they think it should work.
I mean, we're also talking about a mythic ability which allows them to add 3 + mythic tier in AC to their character, which would stack with normal sources of bonuses to AC like amulets of natural armor, rings of protection, and basically everything that isn't an armor bonus.
Would it break the to increase the AC provided by an additional 5 if you allow ABP to enhance it?
Probably not. Chances are the caster (as this is part of the archmage path) has so many different defenses anyways that AC is just going to be a small (and relatively unimportant) part compared to saves or having things like mythic mirror image or displacement.
Edit: Honestly, it's a mythic game so honestly in my opinion they've already went down the wrong path IMO. Mythic rules in general aren't good. It's turned regular rocket tag pathfinder into mega-nuclear rocket tag. So really whatever the GM decides to do in a mythic game is their prerogative. They can't screw it up any more than base rules already are in my opinion.
There are some pretty good unofficial patches out there for mythic rules, but again, that’s treading in the land of house rules. Some rules questions just break the typical RAW assumptions of this board. Sometimes a rules question isn’t as much about how something is supposed to work, as much as what would be the best way for something to work.
If it were my game, I’d say that ABP doesn’t stack with this ability. But if I were playing in someone else’s game and they said it did, I wouldn’t bother arguing it at all.