Creating Food and Water for Small People's Children

[TheDoomBug]

For the purpose of the Create Food spell, are children of Medium ancestries considered Small? Also, the titular question, are the children of Small ancestries just defaulted to Small too? They're too big for Tiny, I think.

Are there specific rules for how much water a humanoid needs to survive? The extreme minimum for an adult man is around a litre, I've heard, so would a halfling be the same?

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

I'd think it'd depend on the age of the child. An infant is probably Tiny, considering that a housecat is.

CRB page 292 wrote:

Waterskin: When it's full, a waterskin has 1 Bulk and contains roughly one day's worth of water for a Small or Medium creature.

(The Bulk increase was undone in the errata; a waterskin is Light whether empty or full (a total victory of playability over realism).)

So the answer to how much water needs a Medium or Small creature is "roughly a waterskin's worth each day." No, the amount a waterskin holds is not otherwise defined.

[Qaianna]

I'd probably say that for playability, a child is the same size as the adult. This is a vast oversimplification. Then again, I think the only rea place this would matter is on a battle map.

Let's not get into why you're letting nine-year-old humans run around in melee combat.

[Lawrencelot]

Quote:

You create enough food to feed six Medium creatures for a day. (...)

Most Small creatures eat one-quarter as much as a Medium creature (one-sixteenth as much for most Tiny creatures)

I would definitely count young children as Small for this purpose, babies as Tiny, and teenagers as Medium, if the choice matters. And yes, the young children of Small creatures would then be Tiny. Though in my imagination, halflings eat and drink just as much as humans. I guess goblins too if they get the chance (though I imagine they need less to survive).

[TheDoomBug]

The situation is an Elven Cleric keeping a starving Halfling village alive, so I needed to figure what the ratio of the Cleric's implied power to the village's population to avoid the plotholes of her being powerful enough to solve the source of the problem and there being so few that they can just leave. Mind, there are other factors stopping those too.

Since there isn't an official rule, I'm going to assume that a Create Water sustains as many as a basic Create Food. Her being "level 4" seems reasonable to me; that allows the village 60+.

[The Gleeful Grognard]

Neither PF1e or PF2e are simulationist games, if you want that sort of granularity I would suggest using non abstracted real world consumption rates instead.

You would probably have to throw out bulk rules too.

[krobrina]

TheDoomBug wrote:

The situation is an Elven Cleric keeping a starving Halfling village alive

It's halflings. They like their second breakfast. Never a believe a halfling that says its starving.

You can fiddle the numbers a bit so it's all going to be OK in the end. They can probably find some food scraps somewhere so it doesn't matter if you come up a little short.

[TheDoomBug]

It's not really meant for simulation, I just want to have a reasonable population for the situation. It also sets a limit on how much help the cleric can be to the players.

The thing really boils down to a joke: cleric as depressed fast food worker who calls her church a bakery.

[shroudb]

make her whatever level fits your story, and the village as big as it fits your story.

And for narrative cohesion just say that the God granting the cleric her powers, seeing the importance of her mission is making her Create water extremely potent, in fact, exactly as potent as it needs to be to keep the village alive.

Divine powers are basically the answers of gods to their clerics prayers. In this case a prayer for "water and food to keep the village alive", if the lives of dozens of faithful/potential faithful are at stakes, who is to question the will of the god to keep them alive through their Priest?

[CrystalSeas]

Lawrencelot wrote:

teenagers as Medium,

Large, perhaps. Feeding teenagers takes much more food than feeding adults.

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:

So the answer to how much water needs a Medium or Small creature is "roughly a waterskin's worth each day." No, the amount a waterskin holds is not otherwise defined.

This may get me in trouble with some people, but it occurred to me later to delve into forbidden lore:

First Edition Waterskin wrote:

This bag is made of an animal bladder or treated leather. It is watertight and holds about 1/2 gallon of liquid.

Personally I find it perfectly reasonable to draw on PF1 stats in places where PF2 hasn't bothered to supply them. (However, be careful doing this for prices, as everything changed by a factor of ten, and some things were further tweaked.) So,

1 waterskin = 1/2 gallon = 1 Small/Medium creature's daily water needs
and create water as written fills exactly four waterskins for you.

If you want to "stay within the lines" as much as possible, I'd make a new spell for her, Uncommon or Rare, greater create water, which operates just like create water except that casting it at levels above 1st actually helps as with create food. This method has the advantage (or disadvantage, depending) that PC clerics could potentially Learn the Spell from her.