| richienvh |
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Which has the problem of completely ignoring casting proficiency and Int.
The double roll isn't good, but at least it makes every stat count.
Except it doesn't. Int and casting proficiency are still relevant for your non spellstrike spells and your save spells, which make up the bulk of the Arcane list.
Spell attacks are mostly cantrips and a few slotted spells, so folding the two rolls doesn't really break anything because you are already paying an action economy cost.
It also makes narrative sense. If you look at it, the Magus is supposed to be stabbing, slashing or bludgeoning their foes with a charged weapon, so it is only logical that there should be a higher chance of the spell hitting (not just on a crit). One could even argue that the spell attack roll should have a higher 'to hit' than the weapon attack roll (narratively speaking, not mechanically or balance-wise).
Plus the way the two roll system is currently worded leads to a lot of controversy. Just check the thread about the concealed enemy. Some of the mechanical interactions make no sense.
I am not saying I completely disagree with you. I could be for the two rolls, with either an action economy boost or a proficiency one, but then we're going to diverge on the proficiency, because i think it would have to be the weapon proficiency (trained at 1st, expert at 5th and master at 13th) with Int to make sense.
If we're going to continue with the assumption that the Magus is about imbuing magic to their attacks and relying on cantrips, which are spell attacks in their majority, then something needs to change.
| VictorFafnir |
Yea, but you can convert int into other things, profficiency you will get no matter what and they are usefull when it comes to saving throws, In a way even wizards with better proff have problem with enemies passing sv or hitting them with a spell but anyway.
Int could be used in Synthesis like raise a thome, or be part of spell strike, or let you use some powerfull abilities limited times, or even feats that would give you more wizard abilities would require int mod to be higher.
| Megistone |
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
But with only a few slots available, I fear that low Int and only attack spells would become the optimal Magus build. Well, and buffs like Haste which would still work well.
I'm not saying that things should remain as they are: the accuracy problem is real, expecially in tough fights. Unfortunately, you can't apply both proficiencies (or both ability modifiers) to the same roll, unless you do something like 'take the worse of the two', and I wouldn't.
I think my preferred outcome would be keeping the two rolls, mitigating the spell missing problem (applying weapon potency to the roll, for example), giving the Magus some expendable resource they can use for spell striking besides cantrips (like a damage-dealing focus spell), and maybe helping a bit more their action economy.
| Staffan Johansson |
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Which has the problem of completely ignoring casting proficiency and Int.
The double roll isn't good, but at least it makes every stat count.
And that is a problem, power-wise.
The magus's primary stat is Strength or Dexterity. They'll probably want to max one of those and get the other at least to 12 or 14 because of armor. They also need some Constitution, because they are a melee class that likes to start and end their turn next to their foe and that means they don't get to use mobility as a defense much.
That makes it hard for them to get Intelligence even to 16, probably leaving it at 14 or even 12. This is in fact core to the major criticism of Striking Spell — even without MAP on the spell attack, you effectively have about -4 between lower stat and lower proficiency compared to your main Strike.
| richienvh |
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Yeah. Magus is basically Mutagenist-drinking Alchemist 2.0. in terms of MADness.
I feel we already have a one-trick pony in that the current Magus will be trying really hard to get Haste + True Strike going.
I also could live with weapon potency to accuracy, but then we'd still have that weird floating proficiency.
One idea to deal with the MADness would be considering having an Int to weapon Strike and weapon damage akin to the Investigators (only working for Striking Spell) to leave it just at the -2s from proficiency.
This is anedoctal, but imagine the party gathers in a pub to talk about Joe, the Arcane Knight
Rogue: Hey guys, I'm calling this meeting because, you know, Joe's not been the same since we defeated the first guardian one month ago (i.e. reached level 5).
Investigator: I became aware of that too. When we first left for the fiend's castle, his blade was always wrought with flame and thunder. Now it is more similar to a sunrod. And he keeps pestering me about the location for the creature's vital organs as if he were an assassin. No offense intended, Rogue.
Barbarian: Don't know much about magic, but last night he called me. Said he wanted to talk. Somethin' bout needing more attention. Talked about less raging and more teamwork. Said he'd feel more assured if he could see me coming up behind them enemies.
Cleric: He did mention I needed to pray for him more often.
Investigator: Perhaps it is his sight?
Wizard: I really don't think I should mention this, but yesterday I dropped by the magic shop to pick up some potions and guess who I spotted attempting to sell their family sword for a mere staff of divination?
Rogue: That's it, we need an Intervention.
| VictorFafnir |
Yeah. Magus is basically Mutagenist-drinking Alchemist 2.0. in terms of MADness.
I feel we already have a one-trick pony in that the current Magus will be trying really hard to get Haste + True Strike going.
I also could live with weapon potency to accuracy, but then we'd still have that weird floating proficiency.
One idea to deal with the MADness would be considering having an Int to weapon Strike and weapon damage akin to the Investigators (only working for Striking Spell) to leave it just at the -2s from proficiency.
Well, instead changing str/dex to in durring spell strike why not att it as bonus to hit considering you already have sacrificed 3 actions to hit and mostly you won't get away with mor than 3 int unless there will be synthesis that focus on int
| Quintessentially Me |
What if Striking Spell auto-bumped, as @Verzen describes, but only when casting a slotted spell i.e. not cantrips. For cantrips, it would fall back to the current behavior.
So when you absolutely want to count on getting that improvement for your spell cast, you use a slotted spell. Given the 2/2 slot capability, it limits the effect usage significantly, and in keeping with the situations where you would most want to use your most powerful spells, you would also be giving yourself guaranteed improvement.