A friend has a champion/paladin character and was confused about focus points. Earlier threads seemed to waver between two interpretations. It all seems to hinge on the sidebar page 302 which says, "If you have multiple abilities that give you a focus pool, each one adds 1 Focus Point to your pool."
So if a 1st-level paladin takes the feat "Deity's Domain" to get an additional power, does he have 2 points or just the one?
I have already noted that he can't regain more than a single point with the "refocus" activity, but if he has 2 points initially, that will give him one extra use per day. Non-negligible, for this novice PF2 player who is just discovering his initial powers.
So, is there anything new on this? Or, like many ambiguous areas in PF2, does it come down to DM interpretation?
It all depends on the *order of operations*, doesn't it?
If you write down the feat first, then it gives you a focus pool. Then you write down the champion class feature, and it gives you a focus pool. Again.
Anyway, given the restrictive nature of the refocus activity, all it would change would be to give you one more daily use of one of your two focus spells.
Instead of requiring a feat for Desperate Prayer (thanks, APG!)
There is a controversy about whether or not it gives you additional focus points.
Seeing how it is better worded for the new classes in the APG, and that for example a Witch can easily have 3 focus point at level 4 (2 if human with natural ambition), I believe it will be errata'ed to allow it. (I am not counting the Orale who can have 3 point at lvl 2 as they have special mechanics linked to focus use).
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This is almost certainly going to be addressed with new Errata but in general, I have come to the personal decision and understanding that it works like this:
- An Ability gives you a Focus Spell
> If you have no Focus Pool you gain it with a cap of 1. (Unless otherwise specified)
> If you have a Focus Pool you increase the Pool cap by 1 with a max of 3.(Unless otherwise noted)
If it doesn't EXPLICITLY say it does NOT increase an existing Focus Pool it always does and should. There is no good reason whatsoever to prevent the increase from a fairness or balance perspective at all.
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A new domain spell is a new ability, and any new ability that would give a focus pool gives you a focus point. So it definitely gives one IMO.
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The uncertainty was because the box about getting focus pools from multiple sources puts so much emphasis on multiclassing being the cause of multiple sources:
It’s possible, especially through archetypes[b/], to gain focus spells and Focus Points from more than one source. If this happens, you have just one focus pool, adding all the Focus Points together to determine the total size of your pool. (Remember that the maximum number of Focus Points a pool can have is 3.) If you have multiple abilities that give you a focus pool, each one adds 1 Focus Point to your pool. For instance, if you were a cleric with the Domain Initiate feat, you would have a pool with 1 Focus Point. Let’s say you then took the champion [b]multiclass archetype and the Healing Touch feat. Normally, this feat would give you a focus pool. Since you already have one, it instead increases your existing pool’s capacity by 1.
The text focuses a lot on multiclass reasons why you might get a focus pool twice, which to me sounds like "more than one source" means multiple classes/archetypes - the cleric's focus pool is one source, the champion's focus pool is another source.
I've looked at this question from many different angles. The only viable conclusion is that according to the RAW, Deity's Domaine does not increase the focus pool at all. So a first-level paladin has to choose between his two focus powers, then spend his requisite 10 minutes (or once-a-day free action if he has that special Desperate Prayer feat) to get a point back and choose again.
I agree with some posters that having a second power probably *ought* to increase the pool, but the RAW doesn't allow it. Perhaps a new round of errata will change that, but I'm skeptical.
And it doesn't make a huge difference in game-play anyway, since increasing the pool would only grant one additional use of those powers per day since you can't refocus more than one spent point until much later in your adventuring career.
Thanks for the varied opinions. But the RAW is fairly clear on this.
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I have to say, my view on this has shifted a bit - I still think by RAW the book demands that the sources be different classes - but I don't think that's a good rule anymore.
There are now so many ways to get a pool from two classes that it's not a niche thing anymore. So it seems a bit reactionary to naysay it to single-class characters. I think altogether it would just be simpler to just give an extra point (to max 3) any time you gain any new focus power.
Ascalaphus, if I were DMing this question, for a home game, I think I'd agree with you. But the DM is one of my former players, and I don't think he'd feel confident enough to step outside the RAW.
The big question is if you get a focus spell in-class, does it raise your focus pool? RAW would suggest no, in this case.
Take a Champion. They get Lay On Hands/Touch of Corruption with 1 Focus Point at 1st level. At, say, 2nd level, they take Deity's Domain, which gives them a Focus Spell choice like a Cleric, but it's a Champion feature. So, would the feat grant an additional Focus Point to the Champion? On my reading, it doesn't.
I still think by RAW the book demands that the sources be different classes
I really disagree. You're taking the book using archetypes as an example and extrapolating that to mean the rule only applies to archetypes, but that seems like a stretch to me. It even says "especially through archetypes" which directly implies that there are ways that are not archetypes to do it.
That said, I don't think Deity's Domain, as written, gives you an extra point because nothing in the ability explicitly gives you a pool or point.