Greetings fellow Forumites,
A friend of mine is looking to build a level 11 Fighter archer type character. He would like to be able to both fire off his bow and when in tight dungeons be able to melee with a sword (one handed or two? Which is better when working with a bow?). What type of build would you suggest for him? I mentioned a Ranger but he said he likes Fighters so.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The main problems comes with how Fighter weapons proficiency works where one group of weapon will have better proficiency.
So to fix you would need one of the optiona below:
- Archer Dedication
- Mauler Dedication
- Ancestry Weapon Expertise
- Pirate, Gladiator or Bounty Hunter Weapon Training
After that is to decide what you want on feats, I personally am not a fan of double and triple shot until you get multishot stance.
Fighter Feats that work for any weapon like Exacting Strike, Advantageous Assault and Felling Strike as great for that type of build.
archer fighters can be pretty good.
I would expect an archer fighter would have dex as prime stat.
So for melee he'd probably want a finesse weapon.
I don't think I have seen any 2-handed finesse weapons.
SO I'd pick a good one handed finesse weapon like the rapier. And perhaps add a shield.There are 2 good fighter guides on the guide to guides page.
both use categories for fighter feats, it would be easy to select the fighter archer feats from there.
Tarondor's guide has a sample archer build.
Just knowledge for the future: both the Elven Curved Blade and the Spiked Chain are 2-handed finesse weapons.
What type of how would you all recommend?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Let's see...
Fighter lvl 11
1) Exacting Strike
2) Archer Dedication
4) Assisting Shot (from Archer)
6) Parting Shot (from Archer)
8) Advantageous Assault + Knockdown / Felling Strike + Positioning Strike
This basically depend of the melee weapon that the character is using, if it's a two-handed one then pick the second option, while one handed the first. The second feat come from the Combat Flexibility feature.
10) Duelist Dedication for Quick Draw
12+ pick anything that you fancy.
Another option is instead of Assisting and Parting Shot, pick Double + Triple Shot to prepare for Multishot Stance at lvl 16.
Is a composite long bow what this character would want?
I suggest you to go Ranger if he wants to fight melee and ranged.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Is a composite long bow what this character would want?
Longbow has bigger dice, but it it has penalty when fighting up close.
Point blank shot helps with this problem... but that same feat also gives shortbows bonus damage in your 'first range increment' (ie- up to 60 ft from up) that makes it completely on par with longbow for damage up until... level 12? EVen after that, it is 2 less average damage with a fully upgraded weapon.
Of course, your player wants to use swords up close, so they might enjoy the problems of the longbow since it gives him an excuse to switch weapons. Otherwise, I think a lot of archers would just stick with the bow as long as they aren't being threatend by an AoO creature.
What type of melee weapon would u all suggest? I don't have any idea with this type of character :S does a two hander work with Quick Draw?
Starting stats? Seems might challenging to get Str/Dex/Con high :S
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Well, a pretty basic stat spread is: 14/18/14/10/12/10.
This assumes human and that you raise wisdom as your mental stat (switching it doesn't affect much though). 14 con is what I usually aim for on most classes other than barbarian. The strength is a bit low, but it would likely always be lower than dex.
You can grab a finesse sword to do melee without any problems. Elven curved sword is likely what you would aim for due to damage dice, but a short sword might have other advantages (example- you are climbing and only ahve one hand free; you can't use your bow then).
You could also do: 16/18/12/10/12/10.
This does a bit more damage, but you wouldn't notice much as far as your bow goes (since that only gets 1/2 str). Sword benefits a bit, but you are also that slight bit less tanky.
If you use voluntary flaws: 16/18/14/8/12/8
This specializes the character, but the player might not care too much. I would really not advise trading out the wisdom for either of the other mental stats in this case, since you would see a will save penalty.
If you are using nonhumans, then you might have to play more heavily with flaws. Elves are a good example, since they tend to favor the build your character wants. They have a penalty to con (which is hard to work with) and a bonus to intellect (which you likely have no use for). You can apply both voluntary flaws into the same score if you have a racial bonus there originally. So, dumping int to cancel out the con problem, you can get:
14/18/14/8/12/10
You could also have 10 int and 8 cha in the above example. Or you could put one of your 4 free boosts into int, and get 10/10/10 mental stats. Having a useless boost and a painful penalty might actually be easier to work with than having two useful boosts and a painful penalty. I know a lot of my dex/cha focused goblin builds end up with 8 wisdom...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Your friend might not need to divert his focus on bows:
- Attacks of Opportunity are fairly rare, so shooting in melee range is quite possible. (And even if you trigger an AoO, you can still shoot as normal in most situations).
- As others have mentioned, longbows do have a penalty when shooting nearby, but that can be offset by Point-Blank Shot, or maybe by just using a shortbow.
- You'll also have to occasionally shoot at an enemy engaged with an ally. Your ally will then provide lesser or regular cover to your target, but you can usually reposition yourself to avoid that issue. It's only a +1 or +2 to AC in the worst case, so it's not the end of the world.
Also, regarding the Archer Dedication some have mentioned, the only exclusive feat that is relevant for that character is Quick Shot; all the others are either situational, not applicable or redundant. Notably, the Dedication feat itself doesn't give you anything. Your friend should carefully consider whether it's worth it for his character.
For stats, you essentially have two options: 18 in key ability, 14-10 in the rest; or a double 16 with 14-10 in the rest.
Your friend might not need to divert his focus on bows:
- Attacks of Opportunity are fairly rare, so shooting in melee range is quite possible. (And even if you trigger an AoO, you can still shoot as normal in most situations).
- As others have mentioned, longbows do have a penalty when shooting nearby, but that can be offset by Point-Blank Shot, or maybe by just using a shortbow.
- You'll also have to occasionally shoot at an enemy engaged with an ally. Your ally will then provide lesser or regular cover to your target, but you can usually reposition yourself to avoid that issue. It's only a +1 or +2 to AC in the worst case, so it's not the end of the world.Also, regarding the Archer Dedication some have mentioned, the only exclusive feat that is relevant for that character is Quick Shot; all the others are either situational, not applicable or redundant. Notably, the Dedication feat itself doesn't give you anything. Your friend should carefully consider whether it's worth it for his character.
For stats, you essentially have two options: 18 in key ability, 14-10 in the rest; or a double 16 with 14-10 in the rest.
Archer dedication doesn't give you something right away, but it does let you be a Master in both bows and a melee weapon group at 5th level. For someone whose character concept embodies the bow and sword in accord trope, being equally proficient with both might be worth it if none of the other archetypes appeal.
Another direction to take would be to take the Mauler archetype instead, to get scaling proficiency with all two-handed weapons instead in addition to increasing bow proficiency in the Fighter class. The character would likely be limited to using a finesse two-handed like the Elven Curve Blade or Spiked Chain, but it should work.
Well, a pretty basic stat spread is: 14/18/14/10/12/10.
This assumes human and that you raise wisdom as your mental stat (switching it doesn't affect much though). 14 con is what I usually aim for on most classes other than barbarian. The strength is a bit low, but it would likely always be lower than dex.
You can grab a finesse sword to do melee without any problems. Elven curved sword is likely what you would aim for due to damage dice, but a short sword might have other advantages (example- you are climbing and only ahve one hand free; you can't use your bow then).
You could also do: 16/18/12/10/12/10.
This does a bit more damage, but you wouldn't notice much as far as your bow goes (since that only gets 1/2 str). Sword benefits a bit, but you are also that slight bit less tanky.
If you use voluntary flaws: 16/18/14/8/12/8
This specializes the character, but the player might not care too much. I would really not advise trading out the wisdom for either of the other mental stats in this case, since you would see a will save penalty.
If you are using nonhumans, then you might have to play more heavily with flaws. Elves are a good example, since they tend to favor the build your character wants. They have a penalty to con (which is hard to work with) and a bonus to intellect (which you likely have no use for). You can apply both voluntary flaws into the same score if you have a racial bonus there originally. So, dumping int to cancel out the con problem, you can get:
14/18/14/8/12/10You could also have 10 int and 8 cha in the above example. Or you could put one of your 4 free boosts into int, and get 10/10/10 mental stats. Having a useless boost and a painful penalty might actually be easier to work with than having two useful boosts and a painful penalty. I know a lot of my dex/cha focused goblin builds end up with 8 wisdom...
Elven curved blade looks good but what if he's not going Elf? Is there any way to get it while being a different race? Since it's uncommon would I need a specific feat to become proficient in it or something? Can you still Quick Draw a bow or Elven curved blade or a different two handed weapon if it's not in hand?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Technically, you don't need anything other than martial proficiency to get an elven curved blade. Rarity doesn't actually affect that. In practice, it might be more complicated. It is one of those vague "up to the GM" things.
Generally, I think there is a commonly accepted expectation that if you are an elf, or have the weapon familiarity feat (maybe a human gets it through adopted?), then you should be allowed 'access' to the weapon.
I would imagine this would mean you could start out with one, and maybe even have the ability to describe the weapon to a black smith to have one forged for you.
Anyway, elven curved blade is a relatively minor part of this. It is only a bit stronger than the short sword, and lacks the situational advantages I had noted earlier. Also, if it is not an issue of style, then the spiked chain is a common weapon with similar stats.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Can you still Quick Draw a bow or Elven curved blade or a different two handed weapon if it's not in hand?
Yes. You can Quick Draw any weapon you could draw.
Also, while you didn't ask this, when you draw (including with Quick Draw) a two-handed weapon, you can choose to have both your hands on it immediately, no extra action needed.