| CaffeinatedNinja |
Was it intentional that this is the best parry weapon in the game?
It is agile + parry + finesse and a 1d6. The next best parry weapon is a 1d4. I realize it is expensive, but that cost becomes negligible later.
It seems like maybe the sheath was intended to be the parry weapon, and not the blade too.
Is that intentional or an error that might be fixed in errata?
Themetricsystem
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That isn't just a base weapon, it's a Unique item that would at the VERY least need to be reverse-engineered to create a Formula in order to make other copies of it. This can only ever happen anyhow if someone ends up looting that item in the course of the adventure it appears in and then has the skills to disassemble it or pays someone else to do so.
It doesn't exactly fit the mold of the formulas for balance but it's a unique case since it isn't Common, Uncommon, or even Rare but instead should be handled in the same way that an Artifact would be.
In short: There is only one of these in the whole of Golarian that the individual who owns it created/invented it personally, it's not meant to ever be used as a normal PC option when selecting weapons. There are perhaps two Characters on the globe that even really know it exists let alone understand its function or stats.
| CaffeinatedNinja |
That isn't just a base weapon, it's a Unique item that would at the VERY least need to be reverse-engineered to create a Formula in order to make other copies of it. This can only ever happen anyhow if someone ends up looting that item in the course of the adventure it appears in and then has the skills to disassemble it or pays someone else to do so.
It doesn't exactly fit the mold of the formulas for balance but it's a unique case since it isn't Common, Uncommon, or even Rare but instead should be handled in the same way that an Artifact would be.
In short: There is only one of these in the whole of Golarian that the individual who owns it created/invented it personally, it's not meant to ever be used as a normal PC option when selecting weapons. There are perhaps two Characters on the globe that even really know it exists let alone understand its function or stats.
Ah, I did not know that. I just saw it listed as an uncommon. Should really be rare for all that!
Themetricsystem
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After taking a second look I see what you mean and while the "base stats" DO list it in the Uncommon Weapon Table that's not really representative of it so I suppose that they COULD issue Errata to add a new Unique section/category on the table the stats appear on to make this a bit more clear but taking the full context of the rules that describe that specific weapon it is clear that PCs do not, and should not have access to this even WITH GM approval without having gotten their hands on the (singular) weapon owned by an NPC.
I'm trying my very best to be spoiler-free here so I hope I've done a sufficient job of accomplishing that for anyone who doesn't already know about it given that "balance" discussions are quite popular around these parts.
| Perpdepog |
I was wondering about this too, thank ya.
I notice that the "rarity does not equal power" rule seems to be bent or broken in more than a few instances in adventure paths. Case and point, the 20th-level monk feat Golden Body from the end of Age of Ashes literally outshines the same-level feat Deadly Strikes in every conceivable way, but is gated behind special requirements to gain it.
Edit: altered for linkification.
| PossibleCabbage |
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I feel like this is working the other way. Rarity protects you in case you accidentally make something too powerful by giving the GM the absolute authority to deny access to it if they think it would cause problems.
In PF1 we had people arguing that their sorcerers could get access to Blood Money even though there's like 2 copies of it in existence "because my spells just pop into my head".
| breithauptclan |
Themetricsystem wrote:Ah, I did not know that. I just saw it listed as an uncommon. Should really be rare for all that!That isn't just a base weapon, it's a Unique item that would at the VERY least need to be reverse-engineered to create a Formula in order to make other copies of it. This can only ever happen anyhow if someone ends up looting that item in the course of the adventure it appears in and then has the skills to disassemble it or pays someone else to do so.
It doesn't exactly fit the mold of the formulas for balance but it's a unique case since it isn't Common, Uncommon, or even Rare but instead should be handled in the same way that an Artifact would be.
In short: There is only one of these in the whole of Golarian that the individual who owns it created/invented it personally, it's not meant to ever be used as a normal PC option when selecting weapons. There are perhaps two Characters on the globe that even really know it exists let alone understand its function or stats.
I don't even see the Exquisite Sword Cane being marked as uncommon. Much less Rare or Unique. Just that it was first published in a specific adventure. Maybe that is just a quirk of AON and the book itself does have the item indicated as being a one-of-a-kind?
For comparison, the Bladed Scarf is marked as uncommon.
| Bast L. |
Exquisite Sword Cane isn't unique, rare, or by its table, even uncommon (the table is a little unclear, but if exquisite sword cane is uncommon, then so is monkey's fist). A specific exquisite sword cane with other properties that I don't want to spoil, in that adventure, is unique.
The table in the book just has it as a martial weapon (level 4 though), without the special properties of the unique, named ESC from the adventure.
Edit: Is there any way for a rogue to keep up proficiency with it, or other added, non-racial martial weapons that seem rougey? It just looks so good for a rogue, but maybe only works for investigator and swashbuckler, maybe some others (dex fighter, ranger).
| lemeres |
It's a little disappointing that we get told rarity and power are disconnected and then we keep getting options published that blatantly contradict that.
I worry that it'll start making some GMs fundamentally suspicious of the rarity system.
It is mostly connected to power, but Paizo reserves the right to make rare items that are flavorful but mechanically useless.
Themetricsystem
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It could have been presented more clearly that's for sure but the whole Weapon Table is labeled as being for Uncommon Equipment.
If you as a GM have the discretion to dig into it the text makes it VERY clear that the individual who owns the Weapon for which the Weapon Statblock belongs to (Though their version is improved well beyond what Runes could do) PERSONALLY invented the Weapon and accompanying Sheath. The individual created the weapon personally and I see nothing to indicate that they would EVER have divulged the existence of it to more than perhaps one or two individuals, none of whom would even care to leverage the info for any purpose let alone to start mass-producing them.
...an elegant and deadly sword cane of REDACTED own design...
Like Blood Money, this is something that flat-out doesn't exist on any marketplace, in any shop, or even the minds of the hundreds of genius weaponsmiths in the Inner Sea region. It's utterly unique, the reason it has a statblock listed on that table is to define the stats, not to indicate that it is something that you can buy on your own or have made for you.
| Bast L. |
Yeah, his exquisite sword cane is special due to it's
The exquisite sword cane itself is not, and it's not actually uncommon. If you look at the table, on page 78, the simple weapon is uncommon, but the martial weapons are not. More evidence for this can be seen in the text blocks for Monkey's Fist (right above ESC on the table) which says it's a martial melee weapon, and Nightstick, on the table under "Uncommon Simple Weapons", which says that it's an uncommon simple melee weapon.
Since Monkey's Fist isn't uncommon, and it's on the same "Martial Weapons" table, and ESC doesn't say anything about being uncommon, it's not.
The specific version, with the special quality in spoiler text above, is Unique.
| PossibleCabbage |
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I mean if a specific NPC devised a particular version of an item for their own purposes, and it was no better for that NPC's purposes than the standard item, why did they go to the trouble of inventing a thing?
Rarity is not entirely decoupled with power, because innovative things are often better than older things, and people will try to keep their secrets to themselves.
There's nothing a priori wrong with having a d6 one handed parry weapon. If you look at the d4 one-handed parry weapons with agile and finesse, you'll notice they tend to have traits that the exquisite sword cane does not. An agile, finesse, parry 1h weapon with no other traits is a thing that should probably exist, regardless of rarity.
| thenobledrake |
It's a little disappointing that we get told rarity and power are disconnected and then we keep getting options published that blatantly contradict that.
I worry that it'll start making some GMs fundamentally suspicious of the rarity system.
I think it's that rarity and power are disconnected, but source and power have a connection. That's why the examples of things that are more powerful than expected are printed in AP volumes, rather than rulebook products.