|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
A lot of people want the packages of Eidolons. A lot of other people wish for the Eidolons to be more customizable with what they can do. I've found a solution...
I honestly think Paizo should include an option that allows for more customization. An open ended option that may not be listed under the packages.
This would look like this.
Create-your-own
Choose a creature type from the list
Animal
Astral
Beast
Celestial
Construct
Dragon
Elemental
Ethereal
Fey
Fiend
Fungus
Humanoid
Monitor
Ooze
Plant
Spirit
Undead
Pick a damage type for your 1d8 damage (B/S/P/acid/electricity/fire/cold/sonic/negative)
Pick a damage type for your 1d4 damage(agile) (B/S/P/acid/electricity/fire/cold/sonic/negative)
EDIT - ADDED IN - Pick two damage types from this list (B/S/P/acid/electricity/fire/cold/sonic/negative)
The Eidolon is resistant to one of those damage types and weak to the other. That resistance is equal to 5 or 1/2 your level, whichever is greater.
Stats for the Eidolon are as follows, 18/16/14/12/10/8. Arrange them how you see fit.
Level 1 - Pick a single monster ability from this list (lists monster abilities for level 1's)
Level 5 - Pick a single monster ability from this list (lists monster abilities for level 5's)
Level 10 - Pick a single monster ability from this list (lists monster abilities for level 10's)
Level 15 - Pick a single monster ability from this list (lists monster abilities for level 15's)
Level 20 - Pick a single monster ability from this list (lists monster abilities for level 20's)
And change each package to follow that same level scheme.
I think this would be incredibly balanced and would get what I want while maintaining what you want.
Thoughts? This would allow me to get my customizable Eidolon, however I picture it in my head while simultaneously providing a balanced option for those who want more of a say in what their Eidolon would be.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
So the mechanical differences from right now are that you're listing additional damage types for the creatures attacks, more creature types in the list (happening anyway), and a stat array you can arrange how you like (thats slightly better with an 18), and a slightly more aggressive ability progression? (1, 5, 10, 15, 20 vs the three we get now?)
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
I think EVERY package should get a slightly more aggressive ability progression to help differentiate them from each other a bit better.
I also think having 18/16/14/12/10/8 is on par with 16/16/16/10/10/10 in TOTAL stats that the Eidolons have. But it gives us a little more freedom rather than being restricted. In fact, we could just make it a general rule that Eidolons get the 18/16/14/12/10/8 and arrange it however you want for any package that you pick. Not all angels are going to be strong or dexterous. Some might be very charismatic and want to use their own spells they might get and be a pseudo spell caster for example.
The damage types is to free up options for what kind of damage I might want to deal. If I have an Eidolon made up of a storm cloud, I'd like it to deal 100% electricity damage and bludgeoning damage, for example.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Verzen wrote: I think EVERY package should get a slightly more aggressive ability progression to help differentiate them from each other a bit better.
I also think having 18/16/14/12/10/8 is on par with 16/16/16/10/10/10 in TOTAL stats that the Eidolons have. But it gives us a little more freedom rather than being restricted. In fact, we could just make it a general rule that Eidolons get the 18/16/14/12/10/8 and arrange it however you want for any package that you pick. Not all angels are going to be strong or dexterous. Some might be very charismatic and want to use their own spells they might get and be a pseudo spell caster for example.
The damage types is to free up options for what kind of damage I might want to deal. If I have an Eidolon made up of a storm cloud, I'd like it to deal 100% electricity damage and bludgeoning damage, for example.
Reccomendations -
An Attribute Array is easy to support, and while I expect Eidolons will be stuck with a 16 topend I ain't going to complain about an 18.
Make it so that attacks that do purely elemental or non-physical damage do not add strength to damage rolls, as a counter to the benefits associated with freely available elemental damage.
Have each base type have an ability progression that is only 3 abilities long (1, 7, 15... 17 feels too late for the current stuff) but add at 10 and 17 the ability to choose a lower level ability from ANY base type, and call it "divergent evolution" or something. See also Crossblooded Evolution from Sorcs.
I think spellcasting discipline should still be tied to base type - you didn't mention it that I saw, but I figured I'd throw it out there.
I really don't feel this is too far from what we have already, beyond expanding the options a little bit.
It definitely doesn't have the issue of being extremely complicated though, so I like that.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Quote: Make it so that attacks that do purely elemental or non-physical damage do not add strength to damage rolls, as a counter to the benefits associated with freely available elemental damage. Counter argument. We make it so they add charisma to damage rolls. The Eidolons charisma. That way they aren't double dipping in strength and it makes thematic sense for charisma to contribute to the damage since it's treated as a "spell attack" .. sort of.
I disagree with the 3 abilities long schtick. I do not think we can get enough variety and customization off of that and there is already precedence for a 1/5/10/15/20 progression in many abilities.
Quote: I think spellcasting discipline should still be tied to base type - you didn't mention it that I saw, but I figured I'd throw it out there. I can go either or. There's arguments for or against. Such as there are undead druids in lore. Having primal and an undead Eidolon fits pretty well, or dragon priests. Having a dragon with a divine list also fits well.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Quote: It definitely doesn't have the issue of being extremely complicated though, so I like that. Hey Mark Seifter! We've come pretty close to an agreement! ;)
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Verzen wrote:
I disagree with the 3 abilities long schtick. I do not think we can get enough variety and customization off of that and there is already precedence for a 1/5/10/15/20 progression in many abilities.
Level 5 is already loaded with advancement due to Martial Proficiency increase and 3rd level spells. That's why you put the first big ability at level 7.
Letting you pick from another base type at 10/17 is a "cheat" to let you do some cool stuff like partially pick your magic, without completely divorcing it from base type.
For instance, let's say you want an Eastern Dragon Eidolon, who is a Dragon but also partially divine in nature. You want the Arcane spell list though, so you go Dragon over Angel. At 10th, you could pick up the lower level angel ability for additional flavor. You could grant a bonus evolution feat for anyone who didnt want one of these abilities.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Oh one other thing I forgot to add!
"Select a resistance from this list (B/S/P/acid/electricity/fire/cold/sonic/negative)
Select a weakness from this list
(B/S/P/acid/electricity/fire/cold/sonic/negative)
Each one is equal to 5 or half your Eidolons level. Whichever is greater."
This has precedence as seen with Tempest Oracle granting 5 fire resistance, 5 electricity weakness right out the gate at level 1.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
KrispyXIV wrote: Verzen wrote:
I disagree with the 3 abilities long schtick. I do not think we can get enough variety and customization off of that and there is already precedence for a 1/5/10/15/20 progression in many abilities.
Level 5 is already loaded with advancement due to Martial Proficiency increase and 3rd level spells. That's why you put the first big ability at level 7.
Letting you pick from another base type at 10/17 is a "cheat" to let you do some cool stuff like partially pick your magic, without completely divorcing it from base type.
For instance, let's say you want an Eastern Dragon Eidolon, who is a Dragon but also partially divine in nature. You want the Arcane spell list though, so you go Dragon over Angel. At 10th, you could pick up the lower level angel ability for additional flavor. You could grant a bonus evolution feat for anyone who didnt want one of these abilities. I'd rather do 1/4/8/12/16/20 than restrict it to just 3. In the playtest, I felt like each Eidolon didn't get many abilities and since I do play PFS, PFS2 only goes up to level 8 atm and PFS1 rarely went above 12, I feel like I would be only using ever 1 Eidolon ability ever in my career.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Verzen wrote: Oh one other thing I forgot to add!
"Select a resistance from this list (B/S/P/acid/electricity/fire/cold/sonic/negative)
Select a weakness from this list
(B/S/P/acid/electricity/fire/cold/sonic/negative)
Each one is equal to 5 or half your Eidolons level. Whichever is greater."
This has precedence as seen with Tempest Oracle granting 5 fire resistance, 5 electricity weakness right out the gate at level 1.
As was noted in the other thread, low level non-conditional resistances from minor class features probably won't be this strong.
The reason Oracles get those is because thats a primary class feature.
I also dont see Resistance like this kicking in without expending a feat.
Paizo values Resistance very highly, which is why its relatively hard to come by.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
KrispyXIV wrote: Verzen wrote: Oh one other thing I forgot to add!
"Select a resistance from this list (B/S/P/acid/electricity/fire/cold/sonic/negative)
Select a weakness from this list
(B/S/P/acid/electricity/fire/cold/sonic/negative)
Each one is equal to 5 or half your Eidolons level. Whichever is greater."
This has precedence as seen with Tempest Oracle granting 5 fire resistance, 5 electricity weakness right out the gate at level 1.
As was noted in the other thread, low level non-conditional resistances from minor class features probably won't be this strong.
The reason Oracles get those is because thats a primary class feature.
I also dont see Resistance like this kicking in without expending a feat.
Paizo values Resistance very highly, which is why its relatively hard to come by. Yeah but the resistance itself would only effect your Eidolon. Not you. And if you two share HP, then resistance really isn't going to be as strong as you think especially if the summoner gets targeted instead.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
At that point it's a minor buff but loaded with a bit of flavor.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Verzen wrote: At that point it's a minor buff but loaded with a bit of flavor. I'm just saying you should look at where they put Reinforce Eidolon to see how the value Resistance in feat cost and actions.
A Ring of Energy Resistance is 6th level.
I'm not saying resistance doesn't make sense for some creatures at a low level, I'm just saying brace yourself for such things being more limited than you'd prefer.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
KrispyXIV wrote: Verzen wrote: At that point it's a minor buff but loaded with a bit of flavor. I'm just saying you should look at where they put Reinforce Eidolon to see how the value Resistance in feat cost and actions.
A Ring of Energy Resistance is 6th level.
I'm not saying resistance doesn't make sense for some creatures at a low level, I'm just saying brace yourself for such things being more limited than you'd prefer. Well lets say my Eidolon has resistance 5 fire at level 1. I don't have resistance 5 fire. So if a fireball hits everyone, we still take the highest damage dealt by the fireball as if the 5 fire resistance wasn't there at all. But if my Eidolon has 5 fire WEAKNESS than a fireball hits everyone, chances are, that 5 fire weakness will deal me more damage. So it's a lot less powerful than I think you think it is. I think the thing that makes it less powerful than the resistance items you linked is that it also comes with a weakness. So it's a level 1 side grade. Not a buff.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Verzen wrote: KrispyXIV wrote: Verzen wrote: At that point it's a minor buff but loaded with a bit of flavor. I'm just saying you should look at where they put Reinforce Eidolon to see how the value Resistance in feat cost and actions.
A Ring of Energy Resistance is 6th level.
I'm not saying resistance doesn't make sense for some creatures at a low level, I'm just saying brace yourself for such things being more limited than you'd prefer. Well lets say my Eidolon has resistance 5 fire at level 1. I don't have resistance 5 fire. So if a fireball hits everyone, we still take the highest damage dealt by the fireball as if the 5 fire resistance wasn't there at all. But if my Eidolon has 5 fire WEAKNESS than a fireball hits everyone, chances are, that 5 fire weakness will deal me more damage. So it's a lot less powerful than I think you think it is. I think the thing that makes it less powerful than the resistance items you linked is that it also comes with a weakness. So it's a level 1 side grade. Not a buff. Theres a couple different reasons to not hand out weaknesses at level 1, as well.
For one thing, the chances they'll actually come up is actually super small. Especially if the player gets to choose. That means they're not always a meaningful drawback...
...unless they are, and they DO come up in which case they'll make you insanely more vulnerable than you should be.
As a general mechanic, I'm leery of weaknesses as a balance mechanism at level 1 as its really hard to win. Either they dont matter, or you're mega hosed.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
I'd even be willing to provide an option at level 1 to get the resistance, but must take a weakness to counterbalance it.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
But you don't need to take it if you dont want to.
I would say you can't have all your Eidolons damage be non physical, definitely not at low levels. It completely counters the difficulty of low level creatures with resist 5 that isn't all resist.
Recent threads in Summoner Class
|
