I'm playing with some monk builds and wondering if I can pump CHA and drop WIS entirely without any adverse effects? It looks like it's only really used in a few Ki Spells (eg: Ki Blast, Quivering Palm) but most don't rely on WIS at all. Am I wrong?
Also I'm looking at making a Half-Orc Drunken Brawler Monk/Rogue, something like:
Bonus feat (Natural Ambition): Ki Strikes
1: Stumbling Stance
2: Stunning Fist
4: Stand Still
6: Stumbling Feint
8: Wholeness Of Body
10: Sneak Attacker (Rogue)
12: Minor Magic (Rogue)
14: Meditative Focus
16: Wind Jump
18: Diamond Fists
20: Impossible Technique
With a focus on STR/Athletics and CHA/Deception for Trip, Grapple, and Stumbling Feint, and high CHA in general for intimidation, deception, diplomacy skills. Any tips?
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You're correct. Absent specific Ki spells, Monks get no more benefit from, and have no more need for, Wisdom than anyone else.
Will Save and Perception are very important things for everyone, however, which should be kept in mind.
And that progression mostly looks fine, but I don't think you're getting anything from Minor Magic that's worth not taking Wind Jump at that level instead, which would open you up to taking an actual 16th level Class Feat (or another 14th level one, or whatever).
> I don't think you're getting anything from Minor Magic
Yeah, I'm not sure about that bit yet. I thought grabbing the Shield cantrip and a ranged attack like Electric Arc or Daze might be nice. By that point they'll be heightened considerably.
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The Shield Cantrip is worthwhile, but not the magical ranged attack since hopefully you'll have a better proficiency and stat w/ a weapon instead (plus likely the ability to become the missile weapon via super mobility/leaping.)
It's hard to say it's worth a late game feat, especially for Monks who have so many game-changers. Depending on how attached you are to being a Half-Orc, Ancestry feats are an easy way to pick up a spare Cantrip for cheaper.
And I guess you're getting a free Dedication?
Shield cantrip is kinda pointless on a monk IMO. Since you always have free hands, a regular shield+shield block+ sturdy shield would be better. And you can still flurry with stumbling strike.
Unless you plan on grappling 2 creatures at once. In which case, whirling throw is a good option.
Also Wis is used in stunning fist.
Yeah, free dedication at level 9 with the Ancestry Feat: Multitalented. Mostly I wanted to grab the Shield cantrip, so I could try the Arcane Tatoos Ancestry Feat instead. I'm not sure about the wording of the restriction though, I guess it's up to the GM.
At level 12 Shield has a hardness of 15, going up to 25 at level 18. And it's essentially a hands-free regenerating shield. Seems pretty awesome for a Monk...
> Also Wis is used in stunning fist.
The feat says: "the target must succeed at a Fortitude save against your class DC", so no WIS required (it'll be STR or DEX).
> a regular shield+shield block+ sturdy shield would be better
That means taking the Shield Block feat though, which I'd rather avoid. Also carrying a shield around is not as cool. Gotta think of the street cred.
I'm playing with some monk builds and wondering if I can pump CHA and drop WIS entirely without any adverse effects? It looks like it's only really used in a few Ki Spells (eg: Ki Blast, Quivering Palm) but most don't rely on WIS at all. Am I wrong?
Just FTR, a couple more than you listed: Wholeness of Body can try to counteract afflictions and that will be a Wis roll. And something like Empty Body might get dispelled, which IIRC would be dispeller's roll vs your Wis. I haven't checked the APG to see how many more such there are. For that build Wholeness of Body is the only one you care about.
Don't you need Ki Strike or Ki Rush before you can get more advanced Ki powers like Wholeness of Body?
> Also Wis is used in stunning fist.
The feat says: "the target must succeed at a Fortitude save against your class DC", so no WIS required (it'll be STR or DEX).
You are correct. Class DC is based on "class’s key ability score". So Dex/Str.
Though it was based on Wis.> a regular shield+shield block+ sturdy shield would be better
That means taking the Shield Block feat though, which I'd rather avoid. Also carrying a shield around is not as cool. Gotta think of the street cred.
Then yea, the shield cantrip works well.
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Thanks chaps! Awesome feedback :)
The revised Half-Orc Brawler with all feats looks like this:
Class Feats:
1: Ki Strikes (as bonus from Natural Ambition*)
1: Stumbling Stance
2: Stunning Fist
4: Stand Still
6: Stumbling Feint
8: Wholeness Of Body
10: Sneak Attacker (Rogue Archetype)
12: Meditative Focus
14: Wind Jump
16: Disrupt Ki
18: Diamond Fists
20: Impossible Technique
Ancestry Feats:
1: Natural Ambition (+1 Class Feat*)
3: Orc Ferocity (as bonus from Ancestral Paragon**)
5: Arcane Tattoos (Shield Cantrip)
9: Multitalented (Rogue Discipline)
13: Bloody Blows
17: Rampaging Ferocity
General Feats:
3: Ancestral Paragon (+1 Ancestry Feat **)
7: Toughness
11: Untrained Improvisation
15: Canny Acumen
19: Fast Recovery
Main skills: Athletics > Deception > Intimidation > Acrobatics
Attributes: STR > DEX > CON + CHA
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Yeah, free dedication at level 9 with the Ancestry Feat: Multitalented. Mostly I wanted to grab the Shield cantrip, so I could try the Arcane Tatoos Ancestry Feat instead. I'm not sure about the wording of the restriction though, I guess it's up to the GM.
At level 12 Shield has a hardness of 15, going up to 25 at level 18. And it's essentially a hands-free regenerating shield. Seems pretty awesome for a Monk...
You might be better off doing bard dedication. It works strangely well.
As long as you have ki spells, you can grab a spell DC progression based off of divine or occult. So you can grab bard dedication, and still have your spell DCs progress, even without taking more feats. It also scales slightly faster than a spell caster dedication spell DC.
Bard also has other obvious benefits. The single action composition spells make a fine complement to the action efficient flurry. Inspire defense boosts the entire party's AC, and you may find that the resistance to damage might be more valuable over the whole course of a fight than what you get from blocking.
> You might be better off doing bard dedication
Interesting!
Mostly I went Rogue for the sneak attack die, as Stumbling Stance and Stumbling Feint were really crying out for it...
The character concept is a shady, whisky-swilling, barroom-brawling prize fighter, inspired by the Brawler hybrid class from 1e.
> You might be better off doing bard dedication
Interesting!
Mostly I went Rogue for the sneak attack die, as Stumbling Stance and Stumbling Feint were really crying out for it...
The character concept is a shady, whisky-swilling, barroom-brawling prize fighter, inspired by the Brawler hybrid class from 1e.
You could go with the route used by Shakespeare's version of Henry V- all of his actions are part of the "play", and even your rough housing is there to further other goals (with the added benefit of being fun). Your monk could play the "character" of a bar room brawler, potentially in an attempt to lower their expectations and guard towards you. There is a lot you can do with performance (acting) and the deception skill.
This actually plays well into the fact that you are a "stumbling stance" user (which is obviously a thinly veiled 'drunken fist' style). Manipulating perception and expectations is already a core part of your fighting style.
Example- Maybe you 'seem' to be whiskey swilling when you carefully perform deception checks to hide the fact that you've barely had a couple shots all night. Careful sips when people pay attention, calling the waitress in an apparent attempt to get a drink (maybe you order for someone else to have a real transaction to hide things).
As you get 'tipsier and tipsier', you silently watch the two men with daggers that have been eyeing you from the corner all night, waiting for you to be alone. As you have 'more drinks', you get rowdier and rowdier. You 'carelessly' throw a glass at the two men's table. When they raise a complain, you 'start an argument'.
Then you pick a 'drunken' fight in the bar. You are now fighting them in the open and bright bar room. Their two allies that had left earlier are still waiting outside, around the corner at the ambush point. They did not have time to poison their daggers while following you home. You like your odds.
After the fight, you 'are too drunk and walk the wrong way home'. You circle around, behind the assassins' allies that had been waiting in ambush.
A Monk/Bard MC? Reminds me of a certain friar.