I can find no official source stating what group this magnificent weapon resides in. Mechanically, it seems to be closest to a rapier - A one-handed weapon that is finessable and doesn't get 1.5 str when wielded two-handed. I also found a comment from the author stating that she'd put it in the light blades group - but as far as I can tell, since it came out after the 'Weapon Training—And So Many Weapons' blog - that IS in additional resources - there doesn't seem to be anything that clarifies that interpretation and makes it an actual pfs rule.
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Reading the Blog, I don't really see how this can be an issue. Are you having trouble with two different GMs strongly ruling that the Thornblade falls into different groups?
Just ask them which group they want it to fall under and proceed with the game.
Or do you wield, like, 6 different Light Blades and you have a GM ruling that the Thornblade is a Close weapon?
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Reading the Blog, I don't really see how this can be an issue.
Example: I am a 9th level fighter with Weapon Training (Light blades). I gave up my 9th level increase to get the Trained Initiative (light blades) advanced weapon training ability. I also took the Advanced Weapon Training Feat to get the Trained Grace (light blades) ability. I bought Gloves of Dueling. My main weapon is a +3 Adamantine elven thornblade.
If I'm playing PFS games and some GMs are ruling that the thornblade belongs in the heavy blades group, then almost none of that matters.
+3 to hit
+6 damage
+3 initiative
Elves have traditionally eschewed the use of larger weaponry, opting instead for lighter weapons that take advantage of their wielders’ agility and poise. The elven curve blade is perhaps the best known weapon in this category, but the leafblade (often partnered with the substantially longer thornblade) embraces these fighting styles to an even greater extent. This short sword has a blade reminiscent of a long, narrow leaf and is suitable both for slashing swings and targeted thrusts. These weapons are designed to be wielded alongside elven thornblades. Attacks with an elven leafblade gain a +2 bonus on attack rolls made to confirm critical hits.
If the leafblade is a "short sword," or even a dagger, it would be in the light weapon group. And if the thornblade is substantially longer, then I'd say it would probably be in the heavy blade group.
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But that doesn't matter if this character only wields Thornblades. They ask their first GM and the answer is "Close", their second GM says "Light", and their third GM says "Heavy".
The player continues along as normal, unaffected, because they only wield Thornblades.
But I can see where this would be a problem if the character regularly switches out different weapons.
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I get what you're saying, Nefreet. Just write down "Weapon Training (whatever an elven thornblade is)." Not really how the rule is written, but it does prevent the GM discrepancies. And it would probably work 95% of the time.
The player would have to be strictly honest though, and not take the weapon training bonuses with any other weapons. I can think of at least one scenario where the party is asked to participate in a staged combat with a limited choice of weapons. And it would make the Versatile Training advanced weapon training option unavailable, as well as a few other options.
Eh, I probably would let it go if the player did it that way. But I can think of some GMs who will demand that the player pick a group. And they aren't wrong. It's one of those things I would probably just avoid completely (focus on a different weapon) if I was playing such a character.
The character in question would not necessarily always be wielding dual thornblades if it was the light blades group, as then the combo of thornblades/leafblade would be more capable, with less penalties. And the problem with your proposed solution, nefreet, is that there is no "Thornblades" group. Just as many GMs will balk at that being on the sheet.
The rules state that weapons not listed in the group fall to gm ruling ("GMs may add other weapons to these groups, or add entirely new groups")- in the case of pfs, that ruling should probably come via campaign clarification, instead on thousands of different GMs ruling individually.
The really sad thing is that the blog post from 2015 showed that at least some developers realized the need for this to be listed with new weapons, yet many new weapons were released in the 4 years of content since then without it.
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They've done so much better with weapon groups in PF2. I do hope that they introduce versions of the thornblade and leafblade into 2e, though. They had such a great flavor.
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The character in question would not necessarily always be wielding dual thornblades
Well then, that, I agree, is a problem.
there is no "Thornblades" group.
There absolutely, 100%, with no debate, is.
Every weapon falls into a Weapon Group. Including the Elven Thornblade. This was hammered out in the Rules Forum ahead of that Blog, and that fact is the reason for the creation of that Blog.
The dilemma in this case is that we don't know which group that is.
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there is no "Thornblades" group.There absolutely, 100%, with no debate, is.
I think we understand what you are saying Nefreet, but it's a bit misleading. It's a matter of semantics; there 100% is not a "thornblades" group - there is a group that contains thornblades. There's no "tetsubo" group. There's no "katana" group. The Elven Thornblade is in (at least) one weapon group, but we don't have an official answer for what group that is.
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The character in question would not necessarily always be wielding dual thornblades if it was the light blades group, as then the combo of thornblades/leafblade would be more capable, with less penalties. And the problem with your proposed solution, nefreet, is that there is no "Thornblades" group. Just as many GMs will balk at that being on the sheet.
-snip-
Nefreet is suggesting something a little different than what you think he is.
He is saying that at each table, just tell the GM that the weapon group is whichever one it is that contains thornblades.
Game 1.
GM1: Which weapon group are you referring to?
You: Whichever one that thornblades is in.
GM1: You mean "light blades?"
You: Sure.
Game 2.
GM2: Which weapon group are you referring to?
You: Whichever one that thornblades is in.
GM2: You mean "elven blades?"
You: Sure.
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Anywhom, I would also support updating the list on some new Blog Finale, especially since there won't be any new weapons released, but I don't think there's going to be any more support for Pathfinder 1, so I think you're going to have to decide on what course of action you want to take on your own.
Decide to focus on one combat tactic (*just* Thornblades), accept that some GMs say "no" to everything and just enjoy the character dealing a smaller DPS, or even moving on to a totally different fighting style and flavoring it as moving on to bigger and better things (bigger and better *known* things).
I certainly lost a few characters to a variety of FAQ-rattas. It sucks, but you move on.
Where is the rule that states every weapon is in a weapon group? Because that is quite simply not the case. The weapon groups are clearly defined in the weapon training class feature. Saying that every weapon is in a group is as much a GM variation as simply saying that the thornblade should be in the light blades because it is a rapier clone. Both have the same level of gm interpreation, and therefore table variation.
I was not even asking for the 'pathfinder devs' to come up with a new blog post or anything. It doesn't need to be more than a note in the campaign clarifications of additional resources for pfs. It's really just a pfs problem, anyway - as table variation isn't really a problem in traditional games.
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To be more precise, I am unaware whether a printed source specifies "All weapons belong to a weapon group", but that message is implied in the Blog itself and the Developer comments that follow, stating that all 290 weapons up to that point fall in a group, and all future weapons will be added to a group. While that last statement has yet to be fulfilled, it doesn't detract from the fact that the Thornblade does indeed belong in a weapon group.
If that is still not good enough for you, you can sell back your Thornblades at full price.