Persistent Damage & Champion Reaction


Rules Discussion

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KrispyXIV wrote:
Per the order of events presented earlier in the thread, persistent damage is dealt in step 1 of resolving damage, and then its effect is delayed. It still was dealt at the same time as the rest of the damage.

It is not dealt at the same time as the rest of the damage. That is why it happens at the end of the player's turn, not the attacker's turn. You might be able to make this argument if it happened at the end of the attacker's turn, but that's not when persistent damage happens. When you apply the persistent damage, it will not occur until the end of the target's turn. Just like the random DC 15 check will occur after the damage is applied absent any other attempts to remove it. And will happen again and again until removed at the end of the target's turn regardless if the attacker is still alive, within range, or has run away from the battle.


KrispyXIV wrote:
Craz wrote:
Not an attack. Persistent damage is explicit in that it is condition damage, not attack damage.

Which is utterly, completely irrelevant. Champions Reaction is not tied to attacks.

It is tied to when an enemy damages an ally, which is when you go to step 1 - and on page 451, inside the detailed breakdown of step 1, it tells you to delay taking any involved persistent damage until later.

Champions Reaction triggers after this, and should apply to all damage determined in steps 1 and 2 including the already dealt but pending being taken persistent damage.

Champion's Reaction is tied to the triggering damage. It most certainly is tied directly to an enemy causing damage to your target with both of them being within 15 feet of each other. Exactly as RAW states.


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I really hope we get an FAQ on this. It really needs it if some folks are running it as the Champion's Reaction as working against persistent damage and some are not. I would also like to hear how PFS is running it.

No matter how many people think their RAW interpretation is the right one, it isn't clear at all. Triggering indicates to me immediate damage like a trigger being pulled, not a condition like persistent damage which ticks at the end of the target's round.

Nowhere does it indicate that a Champion's Reaction continues past reducing the immediate triggering damage. I don't know many people that interpret it that way behind the few I've seen on this thread.

Horizon Hunters

Dervien Firelion wrote:

I really hope we get an FAQ on this. It really needs it if some folks are running it as the Champion's Reaction as working against persistent damage and some are not. I would also like to hear how PFS is running it.

No matter how many people think their RAW interpretation is the right one, it isn't clear at all. Triggering indicates to me immediate damage like a trigger being pulled, not a condition like persistent damage which ticks at the end of the target's round.

Nowhere does it indicate that a Champion's Reaction continues past reducing the immediate triggering damage. I don't know many people that interpret it that way behind the few I've seen on this thread.

In this case, the question best asked is whether Persistent Damage is considered connected to the initial attack or stand alone.

The two immediate ones in my head are:

"Is its damage considered attack damage? or just conditional damage?"
"If the source of persistent damage is magical in origin, is the persistent damage itself considered magical?"


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Deriven Firelion wrote:
I really hope we get an FAQ on this. It really needs it if some folks are running it as the Champion's Reaction as working against persistent damage and some are not. I would also like to hear how PFS is running it.

The same way as with any other area where the rules might be considered unclear, individual GMs decide how they believe it works and at Cons we follow whatever view the organising VO's have. Having said that I have never seen the champion reaction applied to persistent damage and I have run and played loads of 2E PFS.


andreww wrote:
Deriven Firelion wrote:
I really hope we get an FAQ on this. It really needs it if some folks are running it as the Champion's Reaction as working against persistent damage and some are not. I would also like to hear how PFS is running it.
The same way as with any other area where the rules might be considered unclear, individual GMs decide how they believe it works and at Cons we follow whatever view the organising VO's have. Having said that I have never seen the champion reaction applied to persistent damage and I have run and played loads of 2E PFS.

That is good enough for me. If PFS runs it like we run it. I'm going in that direction as that makes it easier. My RAW reading of Champion's Reaction going by my understanding of the worlds "Trigger" and the "reaction" mechanic is that the damage trigger is immediate damage and the only abilities I've seen where using a reaction last pasts that immediate moment have a listed duration like Air Bubble. Champion's Reaction does not have a listed duration and I do not think omission of a duration means it has an unlimited duration as has been implied on this thread. It works exactly as listed against immediate triggering damage until I hear otherwise from the game designers meaning persistent damage for an indefinite period of time will not apply the Champion's damage resistance.

I'll have to live with the few instances where this seems off like Acid bombs from Alchemists and worm that walk attacks.

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