How does the staff sweep work with a halfling slingstaff?
The feat says 2 targets within your reach, but a ranged weapon has no reach.
All the Acrobat dedication stuff assumes you are using the staff as a melee weapon. If you're not using the slingstaff as a staff, the feats have no effect.
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How do you use a halfling slingstaff as a staff? You can make strikes with a ranged weapon, so some feats would still work fine by the rules.
How do you use a halfling slingstaff as a staff? You can make strikes with a ranged weapon, so some feats would still work fine by the rules.
RAW I don't think this works at all. A Halfling Sling Staff isn't a Staff. It's just a flavorful Sling. Its Weapon Groups is Sling, and it's only listed as a Ranged Weapon. The fact that it's even mentioned in the Dedication is just confusing.
It's possible that RAI the Sling Staff can be used in Melee as a generic Staff, but nothing in the Rules actually indicates that.
By RAW it definitely does work, it just maybe doesn't work the way that the maker of the archetype intended and creates a lot of weirdness.
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Well it's a long stick that happens to have a sling at the end. A staff is "a long stick". So why would one need the rule book to specify that you can use a stick as a stick? If you wrapped some oily rags around the end and set it on fire, would it not become a torch? Does the book need to explicitly permit that? And would it need to also specifically state that strips ripped from your explorers clothing may be used to create torches?How do you use a halfling slingstaff as a staff? You can make strikes with a ranged weapon, so some feats would still work fine by the rules.RAW I don't think this works at all. A Halfling Sling Staff isn't a Staff. It's just a flavorful Sling. Its Weapon Groups is Sling, and it's only listed as a Ranged Weapon. The fact that it's even mentioned in the Dedication is just confusing.
It's possible that RAI the Sling Staff can be used in Melee as a generic Staff, but nothing in the Rules actually indicates that.
Using it as a Melee Weapon when it is not explicitly made for that function would make it an Improvised Weapon. So, yes. If it's not listed as a Melee Weapon, it's not a Melee Weapon.
A Bow is a long stick with a string, but that doesn't mean you can use it as a Staff.
Clearly the intent was for the Halfling slingstaff to work with this archetype in some fashion and for it to function as a staff for some of the archetype features. For example, everything about the dedication works fine and is really cool. Now it just needs at least 2 more feats from the archetype to really be feasible as a full archetype.
Bullying Staff works fine and is kind of interesting. An enemy gets close to you, even a really big one with reach, and you trip it, making it prone for any Attack of Opportunity it makes, and possibly having to waste a turn standing up next turn.
Whirlwind stance requires the parry trait which pretty much rules out the sling staff.
So far we have 1 that work fine, 1 that clearly is intended not to work at all.
Then we have staff sweep, levering strike and pivoting strike.
Levering strike and pivoting strike do not specify that you use your staff (which the dedication says includes the slingstaff) to make a melee strike, so they work RAW. Levering strike works in full, since it just applies penalties. Pivoting strike would work for the strike, but then the shove or trip become a question of debate. If you used your slingstaff against an adjacent target, I don't know how anyone could argue it wouldn't work. But there is actually nothing in the trip or the shove actions that require you to be adjacent to your target, so it is plausible that the ranged attack would also allow a trip or a shove action as well. which is really going to come down to GM fiat.
Staff sweep is the only one that is sitting really strangely on the fence of might not be possible at all because of inclusion of the term reach in the activity description. Bizarrely, its inclusion in this ability and not pivoting strike makes it seem more likely that you can use trip and shove against a ranged target with the staffsling for that ability because there is no reference to being within reach range. But technically, you can always make unarmed attacks, even with your hands full, so you have a reach of 5ft even with a ranged weapon in hand, and you should at least be able to use staff sweep against adjacent enemies.
How does the staff sweep work with a halfling slingstaff?
The feat says 2 targets within your reach, but a ranged weapon has no reach.
Probably not doable per RAW, but wouldn't the easiest solution be to just treat the slingstaff as a 2H staff in melee for this purpose?
So your reach would be 5ft, and you do d8 Bludgeoning (since you're using the staff in two hands).
You don't make a strike with staff sweep, so you don't need stats for your slingstaff other than establishing what your reach is, which is 5 ft even if you have your hands full, the dedication is pretty explicit that you can still make shove and trip actions with your staff (which includes your slingstaff) in hand, so I think I have worked that one out: Staff sweep works fine against opponents that are adjacent to you.
The only thing that seems a little ambiguous to me, is whether you can only make the trip or shove with pivoting strike against an adjacent component, but it seems like a lot of folks want more clarity about whether the strike action from levering strike and pivoting strike is supposed to be explicitly a melee attack.
As far as I read the feats, it would take an Errata to make them melee only. The dedication is very explicit that "your staff" includes a weapon that is not a melee weapon and then only specifies strikes, not melee strikes.
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Strikes aren't melee only, and neither of the two feats which involve strikes require a melee strike.
You attack with a weapon you’re wielding or with an unarmed attack, targeting one creature within your reach (for a melee attack) or within range (for a ranged attack). Roll the attack roll for the weapon or unarmed attack you are using, and compare the result to the target creature’s AC to determine the effect. See Attack Rolls on page 446 and Damage on page 450 for details on calculating your attack and damage rolls.
The dedication explicitly includes a ranged weapon from the sling group.
Prerequisites Dexterity 16; trained in Acrobatics; trained in Athletics; trained with at least one of the following weapons: staff, bo staff, halfling sling staff, or any weapon in the spear or polearm group (referred to in this archetype as “your staff”)
In fact, none of the feats or traits require you to be in melee.
Reach isn't a factor, as it's a core function of your size. Reach is informed by your weapon, not defined by it.
Reach is how far you can physically reach with your body or a weapon. Melee Strikes rely on reach. Your reach also creates an area around your space where other creatures could trigger your reactions. Your reach is typically 5 feet, but weapons with the reach trait can extend this.
As far as I can see there is nothing in this dedication which prohibits a Sling Staff from working fully with the feats (apart from lacking the Parry trait), requires it make melee attacks, nor denies the characters natural reach.
Strikes aren't melee only, and neither of the two feats which involve strikes require a melee strike.
You attack with a weapon you’re wielding or with an unarmed attack, targeting one creature within your reach (for a melee attack) or within range (for a ranged attack). Roll the attack roll for the weapon or unarmed attack you are using, and compare the result to the target creature’s AC to determine the effect. See Attack Rolls on page 446 and Damage on page 450 for details on calculating your attack and damage rolls.The dedication explicitly includes a ranged weapon from the sling group.
Prerequisites Dexterity 16; trained in Acrobatics; trained in Athletics; trained with at least one of the following weapons: staff, bo staff, halfling sling staff, or any weapon in the spear or polearm group (referred to in this archetype as “your staff”)In fact, none of the feats or traits require you to be in melee.
Reach isn't a factor, as it's a core function of your size. Reach is informed by your weapon, not defined by it.
Reach is how far you can physically reach with your body or a weapon. Melee Strikes rely on reach. Your reach also creates an area around your space where other creatures could trigger your reactions. Your reach is typically 5 feet, but weapons with the reach trait can extend this.As far as I can see there is nothing in this dedication which prohibits a Sling Staff from working fully with the feats (apart from lacking the Parry trait), requires it make melee attacks, nor denies the characters natural reach.
This is my general reading of the archetype as well. I think there may be some legitimate confusion over whether the push or shove from pivoting strike must be done against a target within range of your natural reach or if it can be done against a target at range. RAW feels like it allows ranged tripping and shoving, which doesn't feel massively overpowered for a level 14 feat. But I can also see the argument that the trip or shove is a different action than the initial strike, so it would not work against a target outside of your usual trip or shove range.