How to Train Your Griffon


Homebrew and House Rules


Hi there. I'm currently running a homebrew altered version of Carrion Crown. The game will run past the AP into level 20+, with the possibly of a few time jumps. My players have come across a Griffon egg and have decided to take care of and rear it. One of my players mentioned how in one of their previous games their party came across a Dragon egg, and the GM made some fun rules to allow the PCs to affect what type of dragon species it became.

Mythical Monsters Revisited describes Griffons as having several rare variants such as Alce Griffons or Griffons with different avian and lionide heritage. I've decided to play on this to allow my players to have a variant Griffon in which they can affect the variety of. Here are the rules I've come up with for expanding the rearing, and variants of the Griffon egg. Any thought or suggestions are most welcome ^_^.

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Griffon Rearing:

Hatching the Griffon Egg (female):
It takes a successful Handle Animal check to Rear A Wild Animal, taking 1 week, to take care of the egg and allow it to hatch. The egg must be kept warm and safe. If the egg is not hatched within 3 weeks, the egg spoils and the Griffon inside is lost.

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Raising the Griffon:
Unlike animals, the Griffon cannot be taught tricks during the rearing process with Handle Animal Checks. The rearing check to raise the griffon is made at the end of the rearing process which takes 6-9 months, after which it is considered a Young Griffon and can learn to fly. If failed, the baby Griffon runs away. If the child isn't properly cared for or motivated to stay with the party it will also flee. Convincing the Griffon to stay with you requires a series of Diplomacy checks or Handle Animal checks (Wild Empathy (Ex) cannot be used due to their high intelligence). Its disposition is unique towards each party member. Aid Another is not allowed for any checks involved with rearing or convincing the creature.

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Griffon Growth Chart:
It takes 4 years for the Griffon to reach maturity. Rearing stages include the following:

Infant: 0 - 2 months (small) (CR 1)
Very Young: 3 - 6 months (small) (CR 2)
Young: 7 - 11 months (small) (CR 3)
Juvenile: 1 year - 1 year, 11 months (medium) (CR 3)
Young Adult: 2 years - 3 years, 11 months (medium) (CR 4)
Adult: 4 Years (large) (CR 4)

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Upon Rearing Success:
If successfully reared, and if treated properly, the Griffon becomes a loyal travelling companion. If you can successfully rear, and convince the offspring to stay with you, it can act as a Mount for a small sized creatures once it reaches medium size, or a small sized creatures once it reaches medium size. However, it can leave at any time it wishes, since it is intelligent and free-willed. Party members eager to have the Griffon as a mount, however, should note that buying or forcibly domesticating intelligent creatures like Griffons is still recognized as slavery by most good deities, and winning a griffon’s allegiance of its own free will is no easy task. Reaching a mutually agreeable accord (or even a friendship) is a much more elegant and safe route to securing the Griffon for the party.

Before it can be ridden in combat, the Griffon requires practice bearing the weight of its rider. In order to be trained successfully, the Griffon must first be Helpful toward it's trainer (requiring a Diplomacy, or Handle Animal check). After that, 6 weeks of practice and a successful a Handle Animal check is sufficient for the beast to be comfortable with its burden, and due to its intelligence, the trained Griffon can be treated as knowing every trick listed in the Handle Animal skill description, possibly even responding to new, simple requests made in Common. An Exotic Riding or Exotic Military Saddle is required to ride the Griffon.

A mature Griffon can eat up to a whole Light Horse in meat per day, and can cost up to 75 gp in meat a day to fully feed; It costs 95 gp a day to feed their voracious young.

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Ustalavic Creatures for Griffon Variant

It will be assumed that this Griffon egg has a high potential for being a variant, unlike normal Griffon eggs. While raising the Griffon egg, if the PC taking care of it makes a successful rearing check to hatch it, the GM will roll two d100 die to determine the variant of the Griffon in secret. Since the campaign takes place in Ustalav, the Griffon's ancestral creatures will be taken from those inside Ustalav or it's adjacent surrounding countries.

The first d100 rolled will determine the flying avian ancestry of the Griffon. This will be taken from the 'Flying Avian Creatures' chart below.

The second d100 rolled will determine the Leonine ancestry of the Griffon. This will be taken from the 'Leonine Creatures' chart below.

Each PC will be allowed to make either a Knowledge (arcana) check or a Knowledge (nature) check to determine the ancestry of a single d100 die.

The Hero Point system is being used in this campaign, and each PC may spend 1 Hero Point (limited to 1 per attempt) to allow either the d100 or the Knowledge determination checks to be re-rolled. Once the d100s are accepted, the Griffon hatches and its ancestry becomes permanent.

The Griffon's ancestry will effect both its appearance, as well as its stats and abilities. Certain combinations may yield positive changes in stats or add special abilities. These special abilities may not be initially present, and will development over the course of the Griffon's rearing and may depend on such factors as its disposition of party members, how well it's being taken care of, or what sources of nourishment it receives.

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Flying Avian Creatures

1 - 10 - Eagle: Produces a normal Griffon head, forelegs & wings.

11 - 30 - Great Horned Owl: The Griffon has the ancestry of a Great Horned Owl of Ustalav.
60 ft. Fly Speed; -2 STR; +1 Natural; +4 Stealth;
Has the head, forelegs & wings of a Great Horned Owl.

31 - 50 - Raven: The Griffon has the ancestry of a Raven of Ustalav.
40 ft. Fly Speed; -4 STR; +2 Dex; +1 Int; Able to speak common;
Has the head, forelegs, & wings of a Raven.

51 - 70 - Vulture: The Griffon has the ancestry of a Vulture of Ustalav.
50 ft. Fly Speed; -2 Talons Dmg Die; +2 Bite Dmg Die; +2 Str; -2 Dex;
Has the head, forelegs, & wings of a Vulture.

71 - 85 - Gnarled: The Griffon has an ancestor who was 'blessed' by a Demon Lord's attention from the World Wound to the north of Ustalav.
+1 CR. Gains the Gnarled template. Gains thick, horny skin. Has a hunched body which is knotted with corded muscles and awkwardly formed limbs. Has the features of a standard Griffon. If this template is rolled on, the d100 on the Leonide Creatures chart cannot be rolled.

86 - 95 - Alebrije: The Griffon has an ancestor who learned lucid dreaming, and gained a connection to the Plane of Dreams, and its eventual transformation.
+2 CR. Gains the Alebrije template. Gains bright, vibrant hues, and decorative patterns like spirals and stripes. Has the features of a standard Griffon. If this template is rolled on, the d100 on the Leonide Creatures chart cannot be rolled.

96 - 100 - Giant: This Griffon is afflicted with gigantism! It is larger and stronger than their normal-sized kin.
+1 CR. Gains the Giant template. Has the features of a standard Griffon. If this template is rolled on, the d100 on the Leonide Creatures chart cannot be rolled.

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Leonine Creatures

1 - 25 - Lion: Produces a normal Griffon body, hind legs & tail.

26 - 50 - Mountain Lion: The Griffon has the ancestry of a Mountain Lion from the forest of Northern Fangwood of Lastwall, just to the east of Ustalav.
+4 Climb; +4 Stealth in heavy undergrowth or tall grass; Spirited Runner;
Has the body, hind legs & tail of a Mountain Lion.

51 - 75 - Dire Lion: The Griffon has the ancestry of a Dire Lion from the hills of the Hold of Belkzen, just to the west of Ustalav.
+2HD; +2 Con; Improved Grapple;
Has the body, hind legs & tail of a Dire Lion.

76 - 90 - Tiger: The Griffon has the ancestry of a Tiger trained from the wilderness of Numeria, just to the east of Ustalav.
+1HD; +1 Con; Weapon Focus (talon); +1 Talons Dmg Die;
Has the body, hind legs & tail of a Tiger.

91 - 100 - White Tiger: The Griffon has the ancestry of a White Tiger trained by the Tiger Lords of Numeria, just to the east of Ustalav.
+1HD; +2 Con; Weapon Focus (talon); +2 Talons Dmg Die;
Has the body, hind legs & tail of a White Tiger.

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Special Combination Abilities

Raven-Headed, White Tiger Griffon: (if fed bird meat, eggs, or rodent meat)

Infant: The Griffon's STR loss from its avian ancestry is reduced to -2 instead of -4.
Young: The Griffon's Fly Speed loss from its avian ancestry is reduced to 60 ft.
Juvenile: No changes.
Young Adult: The Griffon gains the Sound Mimicry (Ex) universal monster ability.
Adult: The Griffon learns how to speak the known language of a party member it has Helpful disposition with.

Great Horned Owl-Headed, Mountain Lion Griffon: (if fed bird meat, rabbit meat, or rodent meat)

Infant: No changes.
Young: The Griffon's Fly Speed loss from its avian ancestry is negated.
Juvenile: The Griffon's Stealth bonus from its avian ancestry is increased from +4 to +6.
Young Adult: The Griffon gains the Powerful Charge (Ex) universal monster ability.
Adult: The Griffon's Stealth bonus from its avian ancestry is increased from +6 to +8.

Vulture-Headed, Dire Lion Griffon: (if fed the carrion flesh of animals)

Infant: No changes.
Young: The Griffon is able to feed exclusively on the carrion flesh of animals (1 horse worth per day)
Juvenile: Gains the Great Fortitude feat from its avian ancestry.
Young Adult: No changes.
Adult: The Griffon gains the Diseased (Ex) special ability of a Giant Vulture to its Bite attack.


The down side:
Training it is like training a child, and requires 24 hours a day 7 days a week focus.
It cost over 27,000 gp in food per year
When you piss it off it will fly away, probably with all your food.
Good luck having other animals with you
other animals if they are not eaten, they will flee at any opportunity. when other animals flee, the rider will be a unwilling passenger at that point as no amount of rolls will prevent them from leaving.
and that is just the beginning

Nope, better to make a omelet, and don't spare the cheese and bacon


Will this magnificent predatory beast forage for its own food, or must the trainer provide a horse a day?

What if, while you and your Griffin are out and about, your Griffin is caught by a Monster Trainer? Does his training outrank your training? Griffin's choice (not really if the Monster Trainer has anything to do with it)? Up to the stats and level of the Monster Trainer? Granted, the Monster Trainer is 3rd party, but this is the homebrew and houserule forum.

Mmm... omelets.


GotAFarmYet? wrote:

The down side:

Training it is like training a child, and requires 24 hours a day 7 days a week focus.
It cost over 27,000 gp in food per year
When you piss it off it will fly away, probably with all your food.
Good luck having other animals with you
other animals if they are not eaten, they will flee at any opportunity. when other animals flee, the rider will be a unwilling passenger at that point as no amount of rolls will prevent them from leaving.
and that is just the beginning

Nope, better to make a omelet, and don't spare the cheese and bacon

Food isn't an issue. My players have the option of feeding it through various spells, or by hunting game, or making checks to supplement its feeding such as Profession (fishing) or Profession (trapper). The listed gold amount was for the cost if they were to feed it its favourite food, horses (specifically a light horse cost). I was asking for thoughts on the mechanics of what I made, not its cost in diet or giving a chance for someone to try and make troll comments. Thanks though.


G-Prime wrote:
VoodistMonk wrote:

Will this magnificent predatory beast forage for its own food, or must the trainer provide a horse a day?

What if, while you and your Griffin are out and about, your Griffin is caught by a Monster Trainer? Does his training outrank your training? Griffin's choice (not really if the Monster Trainer has anything to do with it)? Up to the stats and level of the Monster Trainer? Granted, the Monster Trainer is 3rd party, but this is the homebrew and houserule forum.

Mmm... omelets.

The players will have to feed the creature until it is large enough to hunt on its own (have yet to decide what age category this will be). As stated, it says up to 75 gp a day for mature, and 95 for their young. This is assuming you are feeding them the equivalent of up to one horse worth in meat a day to fully satisfy them, however they will not be forced to feed the Griffon only horse meat. Feeding them to full would give them bonuses on Diplomacy checks to change its disposition. We aren't using 3pp in this game, only some homebrew added. I'm not concerned, nor are my players about feeding the Griffon. We've already come to terms about their options and we are all satisfied with what we've come up with.


The feeding it was basically to point out all gaming aside it really is not a good thing to add to a adventuring campaign. It is by far to limiting to the party. Every where you go it will be a issue. The feeding it is the best way to make it dependent and to domesticate it, if done for a few generations they will be like any domestic dog.

Stabling the Griffin, yea good luck there.
Going into a dungeon with it, good luck
Going into any city, town or village, good luck

All things aside
It is pretty well though out for what you want to do by adding some fun to the players choices. You did think it past the point where any issues will be found in its development.

It is mostly a way of pulling a character or two from the party as you can use it as a excuse. They left to train the Griffon or what ever it is, for RL reasons or to start a new character. To add it to a on going game really doesn't work, as it will cause more issues than be fun to play out. sure you can totally ignore all the issues it will cause. People tend to see it as getting a puppy, but it is not a domestic animal bred to react to humans favorably like a Dog. It is more like raising a wolf or a tiger, and try bring that into a town. Yes I know everyone will jump on the animal companion part here, but even those if played properly have issues. Out side of the area the character is from, or well known for his companions they will have to caged or left out side the area.

So unless you are using it as a mechanic to retire some player characters, it is best not to use this in a on going campaign.


GotAFarmYet? wrote:

The feeding it was basically to point out all gaming aside it really is not a good thing to add to a adventuring campaign. It is by far to limiting to the party. Every where you go it will be a issue. The feeding it is the best way to make it dependent and to domesticate it, if done for a few generations they will be like any domestic dog.

Stabling the Griffin, yea good luck there.
Going into a dungeon with it, good luck
Going into any city, town or village, good luck

All things aside
It is pretty well though out for what you want to do by adding some fun to the players choices. You did think it past the point where any issues will be found in its development.

It is mostly a way of pulling a character or two from the party as you can use it as a excuse. They left to train the Griffon or what ever it is, for RL reasons or to start a new character. To add it to a on going game really doesn't work, as it will cause more issues than be fun to play out. sure you can totally ignore all the issues it will cause. People tend to see it as getting a puppy, but it is not a domestic animal bred to react to humans favorably like a Dog. It is more like raising a wolf or a tiger, and try bring that into a town. Yes I know everyone will jump on the animal companion part here, but even those if played properly have issues. Out side of the area the character is from, or well known for his companions they will have to caged or left out side the area.

So unless you are using it as a mechanic to retire some player characters, it is best not to use this in a on going campaign.

My players are heavy into RP and RP mechanics. They WANT to have to feed, and raise it, and are looking froward to it. Realize that just because you don't, doesn't mean others don't want to have to. I'm the GM and get to decide how everything in the world reacts, and get to decide if it will be fine. Guess what? It'll be fine going into most towns, cities or villages. I'm not looking for someone to bash adding a Griffon to my game, I'm looking for constructive criticism in respect to the mechanics I added for the rearing process and variant chart I came up with. If you can't do that, then please kindly refrain from making negative comments. Also, Griffons aren't like a domesticated dog. Go read Mythical Monsters Revisited and tell me that again...


GotAFarm said that Griffins are NOT like dogs, so I don't know what that last sentence is about.

As far as adding a Griffin to your party, you seem to have it covered... especially with generous hand-waiving of people's reactions to it. For every kid staring wide-eyed and saying "cool", there are seven farmers running to protect their horses and alert the city guard. Or there isn't, and it's just another trained Griffin... just like every other trained Griffin. Put it in the pen with the other Griffins.


the system looks fine, given that the time and resources needed to be dedicated to this seem to balance out the advantage of having a griffin companion with no feat or class ability expenditure.

That said, my only critique is that this being a dice based game and given the length of time and number of rolls involved, it looks like it is almost a sure thing that they'll never make it to the end of the process. Without some major time skips, that would suuuuuuuck. I'd recommend some "falling forward" rules instead, where instead of failure causing the griffin to outright leave, it instead gives some other detriment to the process, but continue to allow for the rearing and training (maybe it loses one trick, or requires a DC check to perform a trick that it knows, takes a penalty to a specific Fly check or requires a special diet)


Sure, the Griffin can fly and all... some might even see it as majestic or regal. But let's not get carried away, here... it's just a CR4 monster.

So is a battle-trained Bison... which costs 75gp, no other investment required.


VoodistMonk wrote:

GotAFarm said that Griffins are NOT like dogs, so I don't know what that last sentence is about.

As far as adding a Griffin to your party, you seem to have it covered... especially with generous hand-waiving of people's reactions to it. For every kid staring wide-eyed and saying "cool", there are seven farmers running to protect their horses and alert the city guard. Or there isn't, and it's just another trained Griffin... just like every other trained Griffin. Put it in the pen with the other Griffins.

Sorry guess I misread that part. Sometimes when you're only reading negative, bashing comments, they tend to blur together.


VoodistMonk wrote:

GotAFarm said that Griffins are NOT like dogs, so I don't know what that last sentence is about.

As far as adding a Griffin to your party, you seem to have it covered... especially with generous hand-waiving of people's reactions to it. For every kid staring wide-eyed and saying "cool", there are seven farmers running to protect their horses and alert the city guard. Or there isn't, and it's just another trained Griffin... just like every other trained Griffin. Put it in the pen with the other Griffins.

As I also stated he already has the details so no need to worry.

The Dog statement is that players tend to think of it the same way as a dog with a few extra rolls. They also get the same Idea that it can be passed off as easily in any place that they go, oh its just a Griffon no reason for alarm.

So glad to see you are just giving them a pass and basically a play toy. So in your world it will have a pass.

But here is the kicker, RP or not sooner or later they will miss a roll and a Noble on a Horse will be involved. That will mean the players will have to kill the Griffon, be convicted of crimes against the state or both. Sure you can avoid the issues but if you really are about RP try that one out. I am just going say this it is not as convenient as you think and will cause many delays in the game.


yukongil wrote:

the system looks fine, given that the time and resources needed to be dedicated to this seem to balance out the advantage of having a griffin companion with no feat or class ability expenditure.

That said, my only critique is that this being a dice based game and given the length of time and number of rolls involved, it looks like it is almost a sure thing that they'll never make it to the end of the process. Without some major time skips, that would suuuuuuuck. I'd recommend some "falling forward" rules instead, where instead of failure causing the griffin to outright leave, it instead gives some other detriment to the process, but continue to allow for the rearing and training (maybe it loses one trick, or requires a DC check to perform a trick that it knows, takes a penalty to a specific Fly check or requires a special diet)

Yup. Like I said there is the possibility of a few time jumps. There will be more than a few months of downtime given throughout the campaign, and when they move past the end of the AP around level 16, there will be at least 1 long time jump before we get into levels 17-20+.


How common is monster training in this campaign? Or is the ability for the party to train this random egg unique?


A cow is 50 gold and 50% more meat than a horse.

A combat trained pony is 40 gold and the same weight as a light horse


If you guys can't give me constructive criticism on what I asked for (the mechanics of the rearing process and variant chart I made) than please don't even bother commenting. I'm looking for help with those specifically. I don't care about your opinions on if Griffons make good mounts, or should be added to the party, or if you like Griffons. or if players can feed a Griffon, or anything like that. I'm just looking for feedback on the mechanics I made. If you're not doing that, you're just wasting my time and acting like children, and I'll go elsewhere to seek council. Good day.


G-prime wrote:
Any thought or suggestions are most welcome ^_^.

I get having people pick at it can be obnoxious, but this is what you "asked"

You think the players aren't going to realize they can get 2 days of meat from a cow at 2/3 the cost? this is relevant to your ruleset because players are going to try it.


The MECHANICS of adding a Griffin to the party are exactly what we are critiquing, though.

MECHANICALLY, it is a problem... unless it is commonplace to see trained Griffins everywhere... at which point it isn't cool or unique for the party, so why bother?

You have a decent system and unless you literally fluff it behind the scenes, the party will never succeed at raising Griffin before it flies off... so honestly, this whole argument is moot. Don't get all butthurt.


VoodistMonk wrote:

The MECHANICS of adding a Griffin to the party are exactly what we are critiquing, though.

MECHANICALLY, it is a problem... unless it is commonplace to see trained Griffins everywhere... at which point it isn't cool or unique for the party, so why bother?

You have a decent system and unless you literally fluff it behind the scenes, the party will never succeed at raising Griffin before it flies off... so honestly, this whole argument is moot. Don't get all butthurt.

Please, stop hating on my posting. I'm just trying to find help with the mechanics I made.


No one is trying to "hate" on having griffons in a party. The monstrous mount feat exists and every aspect of every griffon you list is still worse than monstrous mount or leadership, which can both get you a griffon.

Its not a balance issue, your hand raised griffons are gonna be the standard like 6hd creature that eventually scales out of the campaign because it will get instagibbed or fail every save at higher levels, while monstrous mount and leadership griffons continue to advance.

Your rulesets fine, but the griffons will be irrelevant by level 12

edit: they should also mature faster. Very few predatory species take more than 2 years to reach full maturity, because you have to be able to actually overpower what you're hunting.


Why would I hate on having a Griffin in the party?

It's such a non-factor for me. I don't care about Griffins... don't like them, don't dislike them... literally don't give two craps for or about Griffins. Or whatever else you might want to add to your party.

You asked for feedback, and you got it.

Is your particular system of training random monster eggs adequate? Probably. As far as made up monster training systems go, yours is the best one I have seen today!

I think that it is perfectly challenging enough, and that without GM intervention, there is no way that they conplete the training before failing the roll that sends it flying. Which is probably accurate as far as training intelligent magical beasts goes.

But the rolls, the frequency of rolls, the food and accommodations... you have a complete system, that should work as the foundation of you just hand-waiving everything and giving the party a Griffin whether they make the rolls or not.


Voodist please stop

G-Prime,
Your system is fine and really as Ryan pointed out will have issues above a certain level, and there are two things you can add to avoid that issue.

Just make sure your campaign can support a monster moving through areas where people will be scared of said monster. As for training look up sites that deal with wild horse training and breaking as that is pretty much what you will have to do to ride it.


The Leadership feat, any other feats, class abilities, or archetypes that allows a cohort, aren't allowed in our game. I already brought up the issue of time, when replying to yukongil.

Quote:
"Yup. Like I said there is the possibility of a few time jumps. There will be more than a few months of downtime given throughout the campaign, and when they move past the end of the AP around level 16, there will be at least 1 long time jump before we get into levels 17-20+."

I've already stated it will be able to hunt on its own at a certain age.

Quote:
"It won't cost thousands of gold and it will be able to hunt at a certain age.

For further clarification this has been adjusted to fit the Young age category of 7-9 months, as Paizo specifies in Mythical Monsters Revisited that

Quote:
"Young griffons typically learn how to fly 6 to 9 months after hatching, at which point they become dangerous creatures capable of taking care of themselves, often guarding their younger siblings from threats."

Paizo also states in Mythical Monsters Revisited that a Griffon doesn't reach maturity until 4 to 5 years (I actually took the lower of the amount).

Quote:
"Young griffons reach maturity after 4 to 5 years, at which point males leave their homelands and seek out mates."

Please, stop already.


G-Prime wrote:
yukongil wrote:

the system looks fine, given that the time and resources needed to be dedicated to this seem to balance out the advantage of having a griffin companion with no feat or class ability expenditure.

That said, my only critique is that this being a dice based game and given the length of time and number of rolls involved, it looks like it is almost a sure thing that they'll never make it to the end of the process. Without some major time skips, that would suuuuuuuck. I'd recommend some "falling forward" rules instead, where instead of failure causing the griffin to outright leave, it instead gives some other detriment to the process, but continue to allow for the rearing and training (maybe it loses one trick, or requires a DC check to perform a trick that it knows, takes a penalty to a specific Fly check or requires a special diet)

Yup. Like I said there is the possibility of a few time jumps. There will be more than a few months of downtime given throughout the campaign, and when they move past the end of the AP around level 16, there will be at least 1 long time jump before we get into levels 17-20+.

you may have misunderstood me. The reason for the suuuck is that the chances of succeeding with so many rolls is very small (this being a dice game and fate being a fickle bish) and given that if they had put months or years of real time into this only to lose the griffin because of a run of bad luck, that would be absolutely the worst. Even with time-skips though, it will still be kind of bad (just not the worst), which is why I suggested instead of the almost certain failure leading to the griffin flying off, let them fail forward, continuing the process just with some setbacks but not full failure.

as others have mentioned, if you want the mount to be extra special cool, it's going to need some beefing up not to die in the radius of the first quickened fireballs being tossed around in high level play.

Otherwise, I like the variants and the rearing/breed rules, just turn some attention to high level play


yukongil wrote:
Quote:

you may have misunderstood me. The reason for the suuuck is that the chances of succeeding with so many rolls is very small (this being a dice game and fate being a fickle bish) and given that if they had put months or years of real time into this only to lose the griffin because of a run of bad luck, that would be absolutely the worst. Even with time-skips though, it will still be kind of bad (just not the worst), which is why I suggested instead of the almost certain failure leading to the griffin flying off, let them fail forward, continuing the process just with some setbacks but not full failure.

as others have mentioned, if you want the mount to be extra special cool, it's going to need some beefing up not to die in the radius of the first quickened fireballs being tossed around in high level play.

Otherwise, I like the variants and the rearing/breed rules, just turn some attention to high level play

I don't think that it will be that horrible to make the needed checks. A check to Rear a Wild Animal is 15 + HD. At minimum it would be a DC19 Handle Animal check, and if they roll on a + CR variant, DC20 to DC21. Like I stated, we are also using the Hero Point system, which will be able to help them out if they so choose (+8 Luck bonus to any d20 roll if used before, +4 Luck bonus if used after, or allowing the re-roll of any one d20 roll they just made).

There is only 1 successful Handle Animal check needed to hatch the egg (DC19, DC20 or DC21). They get 3 attempts before the egg spoils.

As rearing a wild animal states, there is only 1 successful Handle Animal check needed at the end of the rearing process (DC19, DC20 or DC21), which has been stated to be when it becomes Young.

It will take a series of Diplomacy, or Handle Animal checks to convince the Griffon to stay. Ideally the party will want to keep it at Helpful.

The Griffon infant will start at Indifferent disposition for the party, with the exception of the first party member it sees being at Friendly (due to imprinting?).

At any rate, the DC of the disposition checks are copied from the Diplomacy attitude chart which is:

(The Griffon has a Cha mod of -1; -2 if its Gnarled (G) or +1 if its a Alebrije (A))

Hostile (The child Griffon runs away)
Unfriendly 20+ creature’s Cha Modifier (DC19; 18G or 21A)
Indifferent 15+ creature’s Cha Modifier (DC14; 13G or 16A)
Friendly 10+ creature’s Cha Modifier (DC9; 8G or 11A)
Helpful 0+ creature’s Cha Modifier (DC-1; -2G or 1A)

The disposition checks will be made weekly, which is the kicker. At least one party member must make the disposition check a week (allowing those who do not make the check to keep their disposition). The Griffon will need to be Helpful with at least one party member at the end of the rearing process for it to stay. Once it reaches Young it will be considered reared and loyal to those it was Helpful towards. Unless the party treats it badly, it will not run away.

There is an amount of risk, but I think it will be doable with the bonuses our party has with Diplomacy and Handle Animal (currently two with +6 Handle Animal, two with +7 Diplomacy, and one with +11 Diplomacy, which will probably be increased due to levelling by the time the egg hatches).

I will definitely take your advice though, and try and figure out a way to increase the Griffon's stats over time to meet the CR the party will be facing. Any suggestions on that front from you would be gladly appreciated.


Templates could be applied at certain levels (11 or 16?) in order to boost the Griffin.

Probably just the Advanced template, but other (more thematic) templates definitely will work. I know there is an Alebrije (+2 CR) template, and you have an Alebrije Griffin...


G-Prime wrote:
yukongil wrote:
Quote:

you may have misunderstood me. The reason for the suuuck is that the chances of succeeding with so many rolls is very small (this being a dice game and fate being a fickle bish) and given that if they had put months or years of real time into this only to lose the griffin because of a run of bad luck, that would be absolutely the worst. Even with time-skips though, it will still be kind of bad (just not the worst), which is why I suggested instead of the almost certain failure leading to the griffin flying off, let them fail forward, continuing the process just with some setbacks but not full failure.

as others have mentioned, if you want the mount to be extra special cool, it's going to need some beefing up not to die in the radius of the first quickened fireballs being tossed around in high level play.

Otherwise, I like the variants and the rearing/breed rules, just turn some attention to high level play

I don't think that it will be that horrible to make the needed checks. A check to Rear a Wild Animal is 15 + HD. At minimum it would be a DC19 Handle Animal check, and if they roll on a + CR variant, DC20 to DC21. Like I stated, we are also using the Hero Point system, which will be able to help them out if they so choose (+8 Luck bonus to any d20 roll if used before, +4 Luck bonus if used after, or allowing the re-roll of any one d20 roll they just made).

There is only 1 successful Handle Animal check needed to hatch the egg (DC19, DC20 or DC21). They get 3 attempts before the egg spoils.

As rearing a wild animal states, there is only 1 successful Handle Animal check needed at the end of the rearing process (DC19, DC20 or DC21), which has been stated to be when it becomes Young.

It will take a series of Diplomacy, or Handle Animal checks to convince the Griffon to stay. Ideally the party will want to keep it at Helpful.

The Griffon infant will start at Indifferent disposition for the party, with the exception of the first party member it...

I love random tables and rules like what you got here and have done quite a few of my own over the years and have had my fair share of disappointment when the dice don't cooperate, so I've moved to a design approach where if I want them to have something (like a Griffon), I'll make sure they have it and any accompanying system will just modify it. But if you feel confident that your group will succeed, go for it, I mean if it doesn't work out, you can change it as need be.

anywho, as for advancing the creature. You've got several HD modifiers already which can help if they get those, and I suppose the biggest question is how will you handle the griffon in game? Many DM will just handwave mounts in general, as long as they are basically just a mode of transportation, they are left well enough alone in combat and other encounters. If the players choose to use it more offensively, that is different however, and would probably best be handled with advancing them like a cohort or animal companion with accompanying resource expenditure if you feel it is too much of a boon, though you could also keep rolling in the theme you got and maybe there are rare herbs or mythical animals that if gathered/butchered can further improve the griffons, which would also be a good way of keeping the griffon relevant to the game, which is what it seems you and your players are after.

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