G-Prime's page

Quote:

you may have misunderstood me. The reason for the suuuck is that the chances of succeeding with so many rolls is very small (this being a dice game and fate being a fickle bish) and given that if they had put months or years of real time into this only to lose the griffin because of a run of bad luck, that would be absolutely the worst. Even with time-skips though, it will still be kind of bad (just not the worst), which is why I suggested instead of the almost certain failure leading to the griffin flying off, let them fail forward, continuing the process just with some setbacks but not full failure.

as others have mentioned, if you want the mount to be extra special cool, it's going to need some beefing up not to die in the radius of the first quickened fireballs being tossed around in high level play.

Otherwise, I like the variants and the rearing/breed rules, just turn some attention to high level play

I don't think that it will be that horrible to make the needed checks. A check to Rear a Wild Animal is 15 + HD. At minimum it would be a DC19 Handle Animal check, and if they roll on a + CR variant, DC20 to DC21. Like I stated, we are also using the Hero Point system, which will be able to help them out if they so choose (+8 Luck bonus to any d20 roll if used before, +4 Luck bonus if used after, or allowing the re-roll of any one d20 roll they just made).

There is only 1 successful Handle Animal check needed to hatch the egg (DC19, DC20 or DC21). They get 3 attempts before the egg spoils.

As rearing a wild animal states, there is only 1 successful Handle Animal check needed at the end of the rearing process (DC19, DC20 or DC21), which has been stated to be when it becomes Young.

It will take a series of Diplomacy, or Handle Animal checks to convince the Griffon to stay. Ideally the party will want to keep it at Helpful.

The Griffon infant will start at Indifferent disposition for the party, with the exception of the first party member it sees being at Friendly (due to imprinting?).

At any rate, the DC of the disposition checks are copied from the Diplomacy attitude chart which is:

(The Griffon has a Cha mod of -1; -2 if its Gnarled (G) or +1 if its a Alebrije (A))

Hostile (The child Griffon runs away)
Unfriendly 20+ creature’s Cha Modifier (DC19; 18G or 21A)
Indifferent 15+ creature’s Cha Modifier (DC14; 13G or 16A)
Friendly 10+ creature’s Cha Modifier (DC9; 8G or 11A)
Helpful 0+ creature’s Cha Modifier (DC-1; -2G or 1A)

The disposition checks will be made weekly, which is the kicker. At least one party member must make the disposition check a week (allowing those who do not make the check to keep their disposition). The Griffon will need to be Helpful with at least one party member at the end of the rearing process for it to stay. Once it reaches Young it will be considered reared and loyal to those it was Helpful towards. Unless the party treats it badly, it will not run away.

There is an amount of risk, but I think it will be doable with the bonuses our party has with Diplomacy and Handle Animal (currently two with +6 Handle Animal, two with +7 Diplomacy, and one with +11 Diplomacy, which will probably be increased due to levelling by the time the egg hatches).

I will definitely take your advice though, and try and figure out a way to increase the Griffon's stats over time to meet the CR the party will be facing. Any suggestions on that front from you would be gladly appreciated.

The Leadership feat, any other feats, class abilities, or archetypes that allows a cohort, aren't allowed in our game. I already brought up the issue of time, when replying to yukongil.

"Yup. Like I said there is the possibility of a few time jumps. There will be more than a few months of downtime given throughout the campaign, and when they move past the end of the AP around level 16, there will be at least 1 long time jump before we get into levels 17-20+."

I've already stated it will be able to hunt on its own at a certain age.

"It won't cost thousands of gold and it will be able to hunt at a certain age.

For further clarification this has been adjusted to fit the Young age category of 7-9 months, as Paizo specifies in Mythical Monsters Revisited that

"Young griffons typically learn how to fly 6 to 9 months after hatching, at which point they become dangerous creatures capable of taking care of themselves, often guarding their younger siblings from threats."

Paizo also states in Mythical Monsters Revisited that a Griffon doesn't reach maturity until 4 to 5 years (I actually took the lower of the amount).

"Young griffons reach maturity after 4 to 5 years, at which point males leave their homelands and seek out mates."

Please, stop already.

The MECHANICS of adding a Griffin to the party are exactly what we are critiquing, though.

MECHANICALLY, it is a problem... unless it is commonplace to see trained Griffins everywhere... at which point it isn't cool or unique for the party, so why bother?

You have a decent system and unless you literally fluff it behind the scenes, the party will never succeed at raising Griffin before it flies off... so honestly, this whole argument is moot. Don't get all butthurt.

Please, stop hating on my posting. I'm just trying to find help with the mechanics I made.

If you guys can't give me constructive criticism on what I asked for (the mechanics of the rearing process and variant chart I made) than please don't even bother commenting. I'm looking for help with those specifically. I don't care about your opinions on if Griffons make good mounts, or should be added to the party, or if you like Griffons. or if players can feed a Griffon, or anything like that. I'm just looking for feedback on the mechanics I made. If you're not doing that, you're just wasting my time and acting like children, and I'll go elsewhere to seek council. Good day.

the system looks fine, given that the time and resources needed to be dedicated to this seem to balance out the advantage of having a griffin companion with no feat or class ability expenditure.

That said, my only critique is that this being a dice based game and given the length of time and number of rolls involved, it looks like it is almost a sure thing that they'll never make it to the end of the process. Without some major time skips, that would suuuuuuuck. I'd recommend some "falling forward" rules instead, where instead of failure causing the griffin to outright leave, it instead gives some other detriment to the process, but continue to allow for the rearing and training (maybe it loses one trick, or requires a DC check to perform a trick that it knows, takes a penalty to a specific Fly check or requires a special diet)

Yup. Like I said there is the possibility of a few time jumps. There will be more than a few months of downtime given throughout the campaign, and when they move past the end of the AP around level 16, there will be at least 1 long time jump before we get into levels 17-20+.

GotAFarm said that Griffins are NOT like dogs, so I don't know what that last sentence is about.

As far as adding a Griffin to your party, you seem to have it covered... especially with generous hand-waiving of people's reactions to it. For every kid staring wide-eyed and saying "cool", there are seven farmers running to protect their horses and alert the city guard. Or there isn't, and it's just another trained Griffin... just like every other trained Griffin. Put it in the pen with the other Griffins.

Sorry guess I misread that part. Sometimes when you're only reading negative, bashing comments, they tend to blur together.

The feeding it was basically to point out all gaming aside it really is not a good thing to add to a adventuring campaign. It is by far to limiting to the party. Every where you go it will be a issue. The feeding it is the best way to make it dependent and to domesticate it, if done for a few generations they will be like any domestic dog.

Stabling the Griffin, yea good luck there.
Going into a dungeon with it, good luck
Going into any city, town or village, good luck

All things aside
It is pretty well though out for what you want to do by adding some fun to the players choices. You did think it past the point where any issues will be found in its development.

It is mostly a way of pulling a character or two from the party as you can use it as a excuse. They left to train the Griffon or what ever it is, for RL reasons or to start a new character. To add it to a on going game really doesn't work, as it will cause more issues than be fun to play out. sure you can totally ignore all the issues it will cause. People tend to see it as getting a puppy, but it is not a domestic animal bred to react to humans favorably like a Dog. It is more like raising a wolf or a tiger, and try bring that into a town. Yes I know everyone will jump on the animal companion part here, but even those if played properly have issues. Out side of the area the character is from, or well known for his companions they will have to caged or left out side the area.

So unless you are using it as a mechanic to retire some player characters, it is best not to use this in a on going campaign.

My players are heavy into RP and RP mechanics. They WANT to have to feed, and raise it, and are looking froward to it. Realize that just because you don't, doesn't mean others don't want to have to. I'm the GM and get to decide how everything in the world reacts, and get to decide if it will be fine. Guess what? It'll be fine going into most towns, cities or villages. I'm not looking for someone to bash adding a Griffon to my game, I'm looking for constructive criticism in respect to the mechanics I added for the rearing process and variant chart I came up with. If you can't do that, then please kindly refrain from making negative comments. Also, Griffons aren't like a domesticated dog. Go read Mythical Monsters Revisited and tell me that again...

VoodistMonk wrote:

Will this magnificent predatory beast forage for its own food, or must the trainer provide a horse a day?

What if, while you and your Griffin are out and about, your Griffin is caught by a Monster Trainer? Does his training outrank your training? Griffin's choice (not really if the Monster Trainer has anything to do with it)? Up to the stats and level of the Monster Trainer? Granted, the Monster Trainer is 3rd party, but this is the homebrew and houserule forum.

Mmm... omelets.

The players will have to feed the creature until it is large enough to hunt on its own (have yet to decide what age category this will be). As stated, it says up to 75 gp a day for mature, and 95 for their young. This is assuming you are feeding them the equivalent of up to one horse worth in meat a day to fully satisfy them, however they will not be forced to feed the Griffon only horse meat. Feeding them to full would give them bonuses on Diplomacy checks to change its disposition. We aren't using 3pp in this game, only some homebrew added. I'm not concerned, nor are my players about feeding the Griffon. We've already come to terms about their options and we are all satisfied with what we've come up with.

The down side:

Training it is like training a child, and requires 24 hours a day 7 days a week focus.
It cost over 27,000 gp in food per year
When you piss it off it will fly away, probably with all your food.
Good luck having other animals with you
other animals if they are not eaten, they will flee at any opportunity. when other animals flee, the rider will be a unwilling passenger at that point as no amount of rolls will prevent them from leaving.
and that is just the beginning

Nope, better to make a omelet, and don't spare the cheese and bacon

Food isn't an issue. My players have the option of feeding it through various spells, or by hunting game, or making checks to supplement its feeding such as Profession (fishing) or Profession (trapper). The listed gold amount was for the cost if they were to feed it its favourite food, horses (specifically a light horse cost). I was asking for thoughts on the mechanics of what I made, not its cost in diet or giving a chance for someone to try and make troll comments. Thanks though.

Hi there. I'm currently running a homebrew altered version of Carrion Crown. The game will run past the AP into level 20+, with the possibly of a few time jumps. My players have come across a Griffon egg and have decided to take care of and rear it. One of my players mentioned how in one of their previous games their party came across a Dragon egg, and the GM made some fun rules to allow the PCs to affect what type of dragon species it became.

Mythical Monsters Revisited describes Griffons as having several rare variants such as Alce Griffons or Griffons with different avian and lionide heritage. I've decided to play on this to allow my players to have a variant Griffon in which they can affect the variety of. Here are the rules I've come up with for expanding the rearing, and variants of the Griffon egg. Any thought or suggestions are most welcome ^_^.

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Griffon Rearing:

Hatching the Griffon Egg (female):
It takes a successful Handle Animal check to Rear A Wild Animal, taking 1 week, to take care of the egg and allow it to hatch. The egg must be kept warm and safe. If the egg is not hatched within 3 weeks, the egg spoils and the Griffon inside is lost.

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Raising the Griffon:
Unlike animals, the Griffon cannot be taught tricks during the rearing process with Handle Animal Checks. The rearing check to raise the griffon is made at the end of the rearing process which takes 6-9 months, after which it is considered a Young Griffon and can learn to fly. If failed, the baby Griffon runs away. If the child isn't properly cared for or motivated to stay with the party it will also flee. Convincing the Griffon to stay with you requires a series of Diplomacy checks or Handle Animal checks (Wild Empathy (Ex) cannot be used due to their high intelligence). Its disposition is unique towards each party member. Aid Another is not allowed for any checks involved with rearing or convincing the creature.

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Griffon Growth Chart:
It takes 4 years for the Griffon to reach maturity. Rearing stages include the following:

Infant: 0 - 2 months (small) (CR 1)
Very Young: 3 - 6 months (small) (CR 2)
Young: 7 - 11 months (small) (CR 3)
Juvenile: 1 year - 1 year, 11 months (medium) (CR 3)
Young Adult: 2 years - 3 years, 11 months (medium) (CR 4)
Adult: 4 Years (large) (CR 4)

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Upon Rearing Success:
If successfully reared, and if treated properly, the Griffon becomes a loyal travelling companion. If you can successfully rear, and convince the offspring to stay with you, it can act as a Mount for a small sized creatures once it reaches medium size, or a small sized creatures once it reaches medium size. However, it can leave at any time it wishes, since it is intelligent and free-willed. Party members eager to have the Griffon as a mount, however, should note that buying or forcibly domesticating intelligent creatures like Griffons is still recognized as slavery by most good deities, and winning a griffon’s allegiance of its own free will is no easy task. Reaching a mutually agreeable accord (or even a friendship) is a much more elegant and safe route to securing the Griffon for the party.

Before it can be ridden in combat, the Griffon requires practice bearing the weight of its rider. In order to be trained successfully, the Griffon must first be Helpful toward it's trainer (requiring a Diplomacy, or Handle Animal check). After that, 6 weeks of practice and a successful a Handle Animal check is sufficient for the beast to be comfortable with its burden, and due to its intelligence, the trained Griffon can be treated as knowing every trick listed in the Handle Animal skill description, possibly even responding to new, simple requests made in Common. An Exotic Riding or Exotic Military Saddle is required to ride the Griffon.

A mature Griffon can eat up to a whole Light Horse in meat per day, and can cost up to 75 gp in meat a day to fully feed; It costs 95 gp a day to feed their voracious young.

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Ustalavic Creatures for Griffon Variant

It will be assumed that this Griffon egg has a high potential for being a variant, unlike normal Griffon eggs. While raising the Griffon egg, if the PC taking care of it makes a successful rearing check to hatch it, the GM will roll two d100 die to determine the variant of the Griffon in secret. Since the campaign takes place in Ustalav, the Griffon's ancestral creatures will be taken from those inside Ustalav or it's adjacent surrounding countries.

The first d100 rolled will determine the flying avian ancestry of the Griffon. This will be taken from the 'Flying Avian Creatures' chart below.

The second d100 rolled will determine the Leonine ancestry of the Griffon. This will be taken from the 'Leonine Creatures' chart below.

Each PC will be allowed to make either a Knowledge (arcana) check or a Knowledge (nature) check to determine the ancestry of a single d100 die.

The Hero Point system is being used in this campaign, and each PC may spend 1 Hero Point (limited to 1 per attempt) to allow either the d100 or the Knowledge determination checks to be re-rolled. Once the d100s are accepted, the Griffon hatches and its ancestry becomes permanent.

The Griffon's ancestry will effect both its appearance, as well as its stats and abilities. Certain combinations may yield positive changes in stats or add special abilities. These special abilities may not be initially present, and will development over the course of the Griffon's rearing and may depend on such factors as its disposition of party members, how well it's being taken care of, or what sources of nourishment it receives.

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Flying Avian Creatures

1 - 10 - Eagle: Produces a normal Griffon head, forelegs & wings.

11 - 30 - Great Horned Owl: The Griffon has the ancestry of a Great Horned Owl of Ustalav.
60 ft. Fly Speed; -2 STR; +1 Natural; +4 Stealth;
Has the head, forelegs & wings of a Great Horned Owl.

31 - 50 - Raven: The Griffon has the ancestry of a Raven of Ustalav.
40 ft. Fly Speed; -4 STR; +2 Dex; +1 Int; Able to speak common;
Has the head, forelegs, & wings of a Raven.

51 - 70 - Vulture: The Griffon has the ancestry of a Vulture of Ustalav.
50 ft. Fly Speed; -2 Talons Dmg Die; +2 Bite Dmg Die; +2 Str; -2 Dex;
Has the head, forelegs, & wings of a Vulture.

71 - 85 - Gnarled: The Griffon has an ancestor who was 'blessed' by a Demon Lord's attention from the World Wound to the north of Ustalav.
+1 CR. Gains the Gnarled template. Gains thick, horny skin. Has a hunched body which is knotted with corded muscles and awkwardly formed limbs. Has the features of a standard Griffon. If this template is rolled on, the d100 on the Leonide Creatures chart cannot be rolled.

86 - 95 - Alebrije: The Griffon has an ancestor who learned lucid dreaming, and gained a connection to the Plane of Dreams, and its eventual transformation.
+2 CR. Gains the Alebrije template. Gains bright, vibrant hues, and decorative patterns like spirals and stripes. Has the features of a standard Griffon. If this template is rolled on, the d100 on the Leonide Creatures chart cannot be rolled.

96 - 100 - Giant: This Griffon is afflicted with gigantism! It is larger and stronger than their normal-sized kin.
+1 CR. Gains the Giant template. Has the features of a standard Griffon. If this template is rolled on, the d100 on the Leonide Creatures chart cannot be rolled.

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Leonine Creatures

1 - 25 - Lion: Produces a normal Griffon body, hind legs & tail.

26 - 50 - Mountain Lion: The Griffon has the ancestry of a Mountain Lion from the forest of Northern Fangwood of Lastwall, just to the east of Ustalav.
+4 Climb; +4 Stealth in heavy undergrowth or tall grass; Spirited Runner;
Has the body, hind legs & tail of a Mountain Lion.

51 - 75 - Dire Lion: The Griffon has the ancestry of a Dire Lion from the hills of the Hold of Belkzen, just to the west of Ustalav.
+2HD; +2 Con; Improved Grapple;
Has the body, hind legs & tail of a Dire Lion.

76 - 90 - Tiger: The Griffon has the ancestry of a Tiger trained from the wilderness of Numeria, just to the east of Ustalav.
+1HD; +1 Con; Weapon Focus (talon); +1 Talons Dmg Die;
Has the body, hind legs & tail of a Tiger.

91 - 100 - White Tiger: The Griffon has the ancestry of a White Tiger trained by the Tiger Lords of Numeria, just to the east of Ustalav.
+1HD; +2 Con; Weapon Focus (talon); +2 Talons Dmg Die;
Has the body, hind legs & tail of a White Tiger.

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Special Combination Abilities

Raven-Headed, White Tiger Griffon: (if fed bird meat, eggs, or rodent meat)

Infant: The Griffon's STR loss from its avian ancestry is reduced to -2 instead of -4.
Young: The Griffon's Fly Speed loss from its avian ancestry is reduced to 60 ft.
Juvenile: No changes.
Young Adult: The Griffon gains the Sound Mimicry (Ex) universal monster ability.
Adult: The Griffon learns how to speak the known language of a party member it has Helpful disposition with.

Great Horned Owl-Headed, Mountain Lion Griffon: (if fed bird meat, rabbit meat, or rodent meat)

Infant: No changes.
Young: The Griffon's Fly Speed loss from its avian ancestry is negated.
Juvenile: The Griffon's Stealth bonus from its avian ancestry is increased from +4 to +6.
Young Adult: The Griffon gains the Powerful Charge (Ex) universal monster ability.
Adult: The Griffon's Stealth bonus from its avian ancestry is increased from +6 to +8.

Vulture-Headed, Dire Lion Griffon: (if fed the carrion flesh of animals)

Infant: No changes.
Young: The Griffon is able to feed exclusively on the carrion flesh of animals (1 horse worth per day)
Juvenile: Gains the Great Fortitude feat from its avian ancestry.
Young Adult: No changes.
Adult: The Griffon gains the Diseased (Ex) special ability of a Giant Vulture to its Bite attack.

Vancian spellcasting isn't a solution to anything, if you ask me.

Soldier: "OK, we finished off those guards, 10 minute rest and let's keep going into the fortress."

Witchwarper: "I used my last WARP BOMB in that fight. We need to rest for the day."

Soldier: "...I'ts 9:00 AM, Absolom Time. We literally got to the planet an hour ago."

Witchwarper: "Well do you want to go on with more WARP BOMBS, or do you want me to shoot my pistol at the enemies?"

Soldier: "I thought we were over this."

The Starfinder devs made a clear statement that they were done with the 15 minute work day when they implemented Resolve/Stamina and made all casters spontaneous. Vancian spellcasting encourages a sort of blackmail-y gameplay where the casters aren't frugal with their casting and blow their wads way earlier than the rest of the team. No thanks.

The way to fix Witchwarpers is to give them more flexibility (especially in skills) and less reliance on save-or-suck abilities. They of course will get better when they have their own dedicated spell list, too.

^ This. Vancian spellcasting is completely against the feel of Starfinder. It shouldn't be in it.

Well, your GM should have either:

Adjusted some loot tables to ensure the group stays near WBL.
Provided rewards in other places to keep the group near WBL.
Had a discussion with the group in a session zero that WBL will not be used and the group gets what it gets in terms of monetary and physical rewards.

Or people shouldn't assume that every encounter will happen... it's even stated in the AP that it's situational.

Thanks G-Prime. I forgot that Disable Device and Hack checks were supposed to be rolled by the GM (because we usually don’t do it that way). I like the idea of rolling for them and then using how many checks it took them to reach the DC to determine how long it would take them to pick the lock. Then I can slowly escalate time and see how long they are willing to wait for that one PC to try and pick the lock. I will say things like, “20 minutes pass and he still can’t pick it, are you going to keep trying?” If they are willing to wait as long as it would take to the PC to pick the lock, then they can get in … but depending on how well I rolled, they might encounter a Kish patrol or something before then. I might even throw in some bogus perception checks periodically to see if I can build an air of tension and danger.

No problem! Also, I have to agree with @Xenocrat on how the Gap is supposed to work. It's pretty clear in the CRB, and it is pretty much described the way he explained it.

The Gap most definitely applies to the Kish.

"What is known, however, is that while the Gap is universal— and a combination of carbon dating and astrochronology suggest it lasted several millennia—its edges are geotemporally inconsistent. Where one star system might have accurate records stretching back 300 years from the present, worlds in different parts of the galaxy might have 310 years of history, or only 275."

If you want an exact reference to read it's on page 424 and the sidebar on page 425 of the CRB.

I guess both ComicViolence and Xenocrat interpretations of the Gap work. Reading the CRB and other books, I was under the impression that the Gap was not a finite event, as there is no mention of a 'beginning of the Gap'. This is aligned with ComicViolence's view. Mentions of Golarion, Pathfinder, and other historical events would be found in the corrupted historical files. I would imagine that a lot of people would work really hard to reconstruct history, and probably find these bits of information.

Actually, pre-Gap records are mentioned within the CRB, the Dead Suns AP, as well as Alien Archive and Pact Worlds. There is also mention of the Gap having a beginning. For instance, the CRB mentions them on several pages, such as the 'History' section on page 424, the 'Magic and Technology' section on page 429, the 'Time' section on page 430, and the 'Castrovel' section on page 438.

History

"For an organization like the Starfinders, locating these scattered bread crumbs and syncing them up with ancient pre-Gap records may yet hold the key to unraveling the greatest mystery of the universe."

Magic and Technology

"Pre-Gap records show that once upon a time, most of the worlds in the system relied on magic almost exclusively for complex and difficult tasks."

Time

"Events that occurred before the oldest edge of the Gap are often referred to as pg (“Pre-Gap”) and measured in how many years before the Gap they occurred, with a date like 300 pg meaning the event occurred 300 years before the onset of the Gap."
...
"Dating anything within the Gap is always a highly dubious proposition, and those who attempt to make claims about such things usually count forward or backward from the nearest edge, such as “roughly 500 years after the onset of the Gap.”"

Castrovel

"Also notable for their power and influence are the city’s many universities, renowned for their vast pre-Gap archives"

Meaning that pre-Gap records do exist, and the Gap has both a beginning and an end. The only debate being the inconsistencies of time for when that starting and endpoint is, as it varies depending on the location and people.

So you can’t literally take 20 on a disable device check … but if there isn’t a countermeasure on the lock then the players can just keep trying until they succeed, effectively taking 20. I guess what I am asking is what are some good countermeasures for this lock. I was thinking maybe an alarm that alerts all of the Kish inside of the building and maybe if my players still stick around after the alarm goes off, the Kish start coming outside to fight them in two waves (essentially replicating the two fights inside) … but then I realized that those fights are already hard and putting them back to back might cause a TPK. Then I was thinking the locks stop working for a day to give the PCs time to explore the city before they come back … but it doesn’t make much sense for a military research area’s locks to have such a week deterrent against unauthorized access. What ideas do you guys have?

The CRB states "The amount of time this takes depends on the complexity of the device but typically requires at least one Full Action." No, they can't Take 20 on the Engineering Check to Disable Device, but if they constantly retry, someone is bound to notice them. Remember, this is a heavily guarded building during a time of civil conflict, as well as a recent encounter with a hostile alien force. They are going to be on high-alert. It's pretty unreasonable to assume the players have unlimited tries to hack or disable a keypad, especially in the given circumstances. Anyways, checks to Disable Device or Hack are rolled in secret by the GM, so they should have no idea of how well they are doing for their checks, or if it's even possible for them to make those checks. Also, the CRB states "If you fail the check by 5 or more, something goes wrong.", so that's always a possibility.

The 'Alarm' countermeasure states "One of simplest countermeasures, this program sends an alert to a specific individual or station if someone attempts to breach the system. If the computer has a control module connected to an actual alarm, this countermeasure can trigger that alarm. If the computer controls a robot, trap, or weapon, an alarm can also activate them. The alarm countermeasure costs 10 credits."

You could have some sort of weapons set up that would be activated, to try and scare your players off along with the alarm, as well as activating a lockout countermeasure.

Also, you are the GM. You could just straight up not give them the option to enter the Temple Found until after they've explored.

My players are very direct and believe they are under a time crunch so I suspect they will go straight to the Temple Found and try to pick the lock (thus bypassing half of the content). The Temple Found lock DC is really high … but this is the same group that got the DC 40 to disarm the Azlanti ship’s self-destruct so I know they can do it. I don’t mind if they roll really high and pick the lock, but I want to do something to stop them from just taking a 20. Does anyone have any ideas? I could just tell them that they only get one chance to pick it, but Starfinder tends to let people retry checks a couple of times and then something bad happens (like after two failed attempts to hack a computer the data is wiped) and I was hoping for something that matches that feel. Any ideas?

The AP states "A PC can hack the keypad by succeeding at a DC 35 Computers check or bypass it by succeeding at a DC 38 Engineering check."

The rules of the Computers skill to Hack System automatically trigger any countermeasures if you Take 20 without first disabling them, so you could always just add some countermeasures to try to deter your PCs (letting them know the countermeasures exist, and then tell them of the option to seek out the security code in the Securitech Offices). You could also add a firewall to the computer that runs the keypad, which would increase the difficulty. Also, the Engineering skill to Disable Device prevents Taking 20 altogether.

"If you fail a Computers check to hack a system, you might trigger a countermeasure, if one has been installed. If you take 20 on a Computers check to hack a system with countermeasures without first disabling or destroying them, the countermeasures are automatically activated." CRB PG. 139.

"Due to the danger, you cannot take 20 on an Engineering check to disable a device." CRB PG. 141.

Paris Crenshaw wrote:

there's no reason a player couldn't replace her dead PC with a kish (at least, assuming you're not playing this under Starfinder Society rules). However, that PC would be severely limited... they would have no knowledge of advanced technology and the timeline of the adventure wouldn't give them time that would normally be required to learn that information. A kish soldier or mystic might be helpful, but the PC wouldn't be able to help much in starship combat or any other high-tech challenges.

I say bah to that (and I realise I'm responding to an old comment. At least it's from this calendar year). Teal'c from Stargate and Ronan from Stargate Atlantis had no issues with that. Yes they were both soldiers (so no advanced computer checks for them), but Ronan could still offer dumb insights into a problem that would happen to resolve it despite not understanding the technology involved.

It's a common sci-fi trope to recruit a native to your team and have them be able to do all sorts of things they need to in order to contribute to the story.

I have to agree. One of my players bit the bullet from Radiation Sickness, on their way from Eox to the Nejeor System, so I took him aside before we started part 4, and gave him the option to start as a Kish, which he took, playing a Kish Solarian.

It was great fun having him roleplay a species that was pretty much primitive compared to the rest of the party. We got past the whole language barrier eventually by having our envoy Xenoseeker use their Quick Pidgin ability, as well as our Mystic casting Share Language (Which Tzayl was able to cast as well, to help with spell per day loss). I gradually let him understand bits of Common, until they all gained a level, and allowed him to learn Common from a level in Culture.

He was still bound to gear only the Kish have on hand listed in the AP, but allowed that he could have non-Archaic versions, which we flavored as being made with alloy scavenged from Kishalee tech. Having a Dwarven Mechanic with UPBs to spare, didn't hurt either as she eventually built him some gear.

Overall, it actually worked out quite well for the story. I gave the Kish PC all the details of what was happening within the Kish society, and told him of the events which transpired before the Sunrise Maiden landed, and he was able to act as a guide, and eventually translator for the party. It really helped bridge the gap between the Kish and the party, and gave more urgency, and feeling to wanting to help the Kish out. I especially enjoyed his reactions to advanced technology, and all the universe had to hold. Our Mystic pretty much shattered his perception of reality daily, using Mindlink to teach him new things. Great fun!

Blowing the thing up without looking into it seems like a way to miss a lot of leads. Having said that, the asteroid mostly is a dead end investigative-wise. You learn a lot about the cult, but the adventure could proceed almost as written: after blowing up the rock the corpse fleet attacks, PCs capture a pilot, interrogate the pilot and head to Eox to investigate further.

My problem was a little different. My party wanted to investigate the rock but they were scared of landing the ship on the asteroid; they worried that the cult would return while they were exploring and destroy the unguarded ship.

If your players are worried about the ship being taken over, I would just remind them that the Sunrise Maiden is equipped with an artificial personality upgrade. The AI is able to make Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Sense Motive checks. If anyone suspicious comes along, it could at least assess the situation, and contact the crew.