Barbarian with Champion Dedication


Rules Discussion


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I've considered taking the Champion dedication for my Barbarian, after reading it suggested in a few class guides. Biggest problem is he's Chaotic Neutral, which a Champion cannot be.

The big draw, according to the guides, is access to heavy armor, but I don't understand this. Heavy armor gives a grand total of 1 extra point of AC, and that becomes a -1 when the Barbarian gets Medium Armor Expertise at level 13. Since, according to my progression plan, I can't take the dedication until level 10, the benefit seems kind of skimpy.

Am I missing something?

Sczarni

I believe that Neutral Champion options and Evil Champion options will be released in upcoming sourcebooks.

Heavy Armor doesn't benefit every character equally. It may not be the best option for yours.

My 10 Dex Sorcerer, for example, gets quite an AC bump from being Trained in Full Plate, and one Archetype Feat was cheaper than grabbing three General Feats. By the time Sorcerers get Expert Proficiency in Unarmored, the Champion Archetype's Expert increase is right around the corner.

Liberty's Edge

You'd still get training in religion.

Not every multiclass dedication is going to be advantageous for a given character. Based on what you've planned it sounds like that might be the case here. If, for example, you had room to the dedication at level 2 you'd be at +1 AC until you pick up Medium Armor Expertise at level 13.

To answer your question, no you are not missing anything. Champion dedication is just a poor fit for your character.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I hope you're right about Neutral causes at least. He's become very devoted to Milani's anti-tyranny philosophy.

I was just curious why the guides I've seen seem to think that having heavy armor is so amazing, when it only gives a +1 benefit. Bulwark in full plate is pretty nice, but otherwise I don't get it. Getting "lay on hands", however, would be amazing.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Evil causes are coming out in the APG. Neutral causes wont be in there; I don’t think they’ve fully committed to them, even. So who knows.
Heavy armor is great if you cannot prioritize Dex, and getting all armor proficiencies is amazing if you start with none; it is particularly nice for casters like Wizards, Sorcerees, and Cloistered Clerics.
I agree that it doesn’t really make much sense for the character you describe. Sure, it’s a good archetype, but it’s not one size fits all. Depending on what you want, there will likely be archetypes in the APG that better meet your needs,

Sczarni

I'm betting that the Guide you read recommended Dex 10 and allocating those ability boosts to other stats, like Wisdom for the Saving Throw bonus or Charisma for Intimidation. When you have no Dex mod, Full Plate is +2 AC over Breastplate.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Nefreet wrote:
I'm betting that the Guide you read recommended Dex 10 and allocating those ability boosts to other stats, like Wisdom for the Saving Throw bonus or Charisma for Intimidation. When you have no Dex mod, Full Plate is +2 AC over Breastplate.

I gave him 12 Dex because of Reflex and for the breastplate Dex cap (I made the character before I read any guides).

Champion is cool for the "Lay on hands" focus spell. I just don't know if I want to give up two class feats to get it.


Thomas Keller wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
I'm betting that the Guide you read recommended Dex 10 and allocating those ability boosts to other stats, like Wisdom for the Saving Throw bonus or Charisma for Intimidation. When you have no Dex mod, Full Plate is +2 AC over Breastplate.

I gave him 12 Dex because of Reflex and for the breastplate Dex cap (I made the character before I read any guides).

Champion is cool for the "Lay on hands" focus spell. I just don't know if I want to give up two class feats to get it.

Personally I don't think it's worth it. While Medicine can't heal on demand like Lay on Hands can, if someone in your party has the medicine skill you really only need to survive combat, and then take some time to heal up.

However, surviving combat can be a challenge. I'd rather use potions for those situations than spending class feats on the champion dedication, unless there is something else in the champion dedication you'd like to grab.


I like the mix, but i'd prefer the opposite.

Champion + Barbarian dedication.

Especially Paladin + Silver Dragon Barbarian Dedication.


Trouble with Lay on Hands is it's a spell, and you can't cast while Raging w/o another feat (which would be a waste).
Not that you couldn't hold back until wounded and cure/rage/strike a few rounds in.

The two classes do not synergize naturally. It'd take some finagling which wouldn't lead to some surprise payoff anyway.


Castilliano wrote:

Trouble with Lay on Hands is it's a spell, and you can't cast while Raging w/o another feat (which would be a waste).

Not that you couldn't hold back until wounded and cure/rage/strike a few rounds in.

The two classes do not synergize naturally. It'd take some finagling which wouldn't lead to some surprise payoff anyway.

Lay on Hands only has a Somatic Component, so it doesn't have the Concentrate Trait. It can be Cast just fine while Raging.


Aratorin wrote:
Castilliano wrote:

Trouble with Lay on Hands is it's a spell, and you can't cast while Raging w/o another feat (which would be a waste).

Not that you couldn't hold back until wounded and cure/rage/strike a few rounds in.

The two classes do not synergize naturally. It'd take some finagling which wouldn't lead to some surprise payoff anyway.

Lay on Hands only has a Somatic Component, so it doesn't have the Concentrate Trait. It can be Cast just fine while Raging.

The differences in component traits are more important than I'd thought.

I guess I should learn to distinguish them. :)

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