Is there any way for animal instinct barbarians to overcome metal resistances with unarmed natural attacks? Similar to how monks get metal strikes. At higher levels I could see this being a pretty significant disadvantage if you can’t overcome metal resistances because you are locked out of raging with a weapon.
I don't know of an easy way to do so, but those kinds of resistances aren't that common.
It's not like PF1 where at higher levels everything had DR/silver or adamantine or cold iron, but everyone also had +3/+4 magic items to negate that.
In PF2 most players wont have cold iron or silver weapons enhanced with runes (because it's more expensive).
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Eh.
Actual damage reduction gotten through with metals is pretty rare in PF2. Most such instances were turned into Weaknesses instead, and while not having a weakness is inconvenient, it's much less of an issue, IMO. Especially for the huge damage of a Barbarian.
I mean, for silver all there is are devils, and devils you can compensate pretty much entirely by getting Holy and thus some Good damage. For cold iron there's...well, there's basically nothing. No whole types of creature, anyway. For adamantine, it's pretty much just golems (well, and gargoyles), and they seem designed around the assumption that nobody will get through their Resistance.
And then there's the fact that Barbarians are the highest damage characters in the game, not in terms of DPR, but just in pure damage per attack. They thus suffer less than any other Class from weaknesses, since single big attacks get through those more easily. Which isn't a huge deal mathematically, but is worth noting.
But really, it's the much lower number of creatures that this is relevant for in PF2 that makes it not a big deal.
There are some more creatures with Regeneration that's only stopped by metal types, but that just means you need one person with that metal, not that everyone needs it.
Worth noting that using precious materials for fully upgraded weapons is pretty expensive, especially when we are looking at 4 fundamental runes and a couple property runes. The old golf bag of weapons isn't really a thing anymore because a +1 striking cold iron greatsword does less damage to most demons than a +2 flaming shock greater striking greatsword.
The only exception is dual wielders, who can cheat and use doubling rings to bypass the expenses, but barbarians aren't typically doing that anyway.
Eh.
Actual damage reduction gotten through with metals is pretty rare in PF2. Most such instances were turned into Weaknesses instead, and while not having a weakness is inconvenient, it's much less of an issue, IMO. Especially for the huge damage of a Barbarian.
I mean, for silver all there is are devils, and devils you can compensate pretty much entirely by getting Holy and thus some Good damage. For cold iron there's...well, there's basically nothing. No whole types of creature, anyway. For adamantine, it's pretty much just golems (well, and gargoyles), and they seem designed around the assumption that nobody will get through their Resistance.
And then there's the fact that Barbarians are the highest damage characters in the game, not in terms of DPR, but just in pure damage per attack. They thus suffer less than any other Class from weaknesses, since single big attacks get through those more easily. Which isn't a huge deal mathematically, but is worth noting.
But really, it's the much lower number of creatures that this is relevant for in PF2 that makes it not a big deal.
There are some more creatures with Regeneration that's only stopped by metal types, but that just means you need one person with that metal, not that everyone needs it.
I think you are drastically underestimating the number of creatures with Weaknesses/Resistances (Except).
Cold Iron actually has the largest impact by far.
Cold Iron: All Azatas, Demons, Fey, Hags, Linnorms, and Wendigo
Silver: All Werecreatures, Devils, Nilith, and Vampires
Adamantine: Gargoyle, All Golems, Grikkitog, Guthallath, and Shuln
That's a lot of creatures. Precious materials have been invaluable in both Age of Ashes and Extinction Curse.
Not to mention, any weapon that isn't one of those should be Orichalcum, as having 4 Property Runes is obviously always better than a generic Weapon.
Honestly, the only recommendation I would personally make, if you don't have a strong idea of what you're fighting, is to just make a regular steel weapon at first until you're wealthy enough that you can get an orichalcum weapon with and 4 property runes on it.
Before that, a steel weapon with a max of 3 properties runes is all you really need, along with unenchanted special material versions of the others, in case it's really a problem.
But the extra cost to enchant those special materials will often mean that you'll deal more damage with a non-special material version because you can afford higher fundamental runes or more property runes which will make up for not having a weapon that cuts through DR or activates weakness.
Maybe we could get metal strikes as a feat in the future.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think you are drastically underestimating the number of creatures with Weaknesses/Resistances (Except).
No, my post was specifically about Resistance, which I examined on its own. Indeed, I specified Weaknesses as much more common.
But the thing is, while Weakness is great to have and anyone who can use it will absolutely shine in that encounter, it's not crippling not to have it in the same way it is to not be able to get through Resistance.
This is especially true on a Barbarian, who may be doing enough more damage per hit that she still does more than the Fighter on non-crit hits even if he's using a Weakness and she isn't. His DPR will be much higher for that fight, but she's still very much contributing.
Cold Iron actually has the largest impact by far.
Cold Iron: All Azatas, Demons, Fey, Hags, Linnorms, and Wendigo
Silver: All Werecreatures, Devils, Nilith, and Vampires
Adamantine: Gargoyle, All Golems, Grikkitog, Guthallath, and Shuln
Of those, only vampires have Resistance and weren't on my list. The rest have either Weakness (which is less vital to have), or Regeneration (which is absolutely vital, but you only need one party member to have it).
That's a lot of creatures. Precious materials have been invaluable in both Age of Ashes and Extinction Curse.
Having enemy Weaknesses in your arsenal is great and feels great, but lacking them is not a crippling disadvantage. Lacking the ability to get through Resistance is much more damaging, and the vastly lower number of creatures specifically with Resistance is what I was addressing.
Not to mention, any weapon that isn't one of those should be Orichalcum, as having 4 Property Runes is obviously always better than a generic Weapon.
There is the small matter of price in this regard...
Yeah, special material weapons are great if you find them, though usually you don't find enough to outfit the entire party. So the animal barbarian may just want to let someone else use it.
They are less great if you have to purchase them. Unless you what you will be fighting and will be fighting a lot of it. A Standard grade cold iron great axe (needed for +2 weapon runes) is 1,056 gold. That's more than the price of a +2 striking weapon potency, or two elemental property runes, both of which are more broadly relevant than special materials. Even if a I knew I was going to fight a demon summoning cult, I'd rather put that gold to a Holy rune which will not only hurt the demons but every mortal cultist.
Monks getting metal strikes is a major class feature, analogous to barbarians getting Raging Resistance. Don't give animal totems barbars other people's class features.