Two-weapon Fighting and Shield Master

[Minigiant]

I am looking for some clarification on the Shield Master feat

D20 wrote:

You do not suffer any Two-Weapon Fighting penalties on attack rolls made with a shield while you are wielding another weapon. Add your shield’s enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls made with the shield as if it were a weapon enhancement bonus.

When it comes to Two-Weapon Fighting 1,2, & 3 with Dual Shields.

Lets say I have all three TWF Feats, Shield Master, and 12 BAB

Does that mean i get this for attacks:

+12/+12/+12/+12/+7/+2

Three extra attacks at full BAB with no TWF penalties?

[Majuba]

Absolutely not.

You'd be +12/+12/+7/+7/+2/+2.

The Two-Weapon Fighting penalties are laid out in the combat chapter. You're not taking TWF penalties when you gain those additional attacks from feats 2 & 3, any more than you're taking a TWF penalty on the main-hand attacks at +7 and +2.

[Scott Wilhelm]

so your BAB is +12, so nromally that would give you plus 12/7/2 2 weapon fighting with 2 light weapons where your off-hand weapon is light would make your Full Attack 10/10/5/0

Shield Master negates the 2 weapon fighting weapon penalties when you are 2 weapon fighting with a shield, and this time you are fighting with 2 shields, so you should be back up to 12/12/7/2

The 2 weapon fighting Feat does not give you any extra attacks. How are you guys getting 6 attacks out of this?

Shield Master says you don't suffer 2wf penalties, so you don't.

I guess you can say you that you do suffer the penalty because another shield is not another weapon. Remember that the feat already presumes you are 2 weapon fighting and already have the 2 weapon fighting feat. What else could "another" mean but another weapon, but not a shield?

[Ferious Thune]

He's taking Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting as well.

Majuba has the correct attack sequence.

[Scott Wilhelm]

Ferious Thune wrote:

He's taking Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting as well.

Majuba has the correct attack sequence.

Oops.

Minigiant wrote:

Lets say I have all three TWF Feats, Shield Master, and 12 BAB

I see.

[Melkiador]

shield master wrote:

Benefit: You do not suffer any penalties on attack rolls made with a shield while you are wielding another weapon. Add your shield's enhancement bonus to attacks and damage rolls made with the shield as if it was a weapon enhancement bonus.

I feel like the intention here is pretty clear. But it does say you don’t take “any” penalty. If you’re being legalistic about it, you could be using power attack on those attacks and not take that penalty either. It’s just some clumsy rules text, so we deal with it.

There’s a FAQ though.

Quote:

Shield Master allows a character to ignore the Two-Weapon Fighting penalties on attack rolls with a shield while wielding another weapon, but not any other penalties.

It still leaves a problem with the improved feat though.

Quote:

Benefit: In addition to the standard single extra attack you get with an off-hand weapon, you get a second attack with it, albeit at a –5 penalty.

You have to assume the FAQ meant that it only applies to the base penalties for two weapon fighting, but not any other penalties associated with two weapon fighting.

[Minigiant]

Melkiador wrote:

shield master wrote:

Benefit: You do not suffer any penalties on attack rolls made with a shield while you are wielding another weapon. Add your shield's enhancement bonus to attacks and damage rolls made with the shield as if it was a weapon enhancement bonus.

I feel like the intention here is pretty clear. But it does say you don’t take “any” penalty. If you’re being legalistic about it, you could be using power attack on those attacks and not take that penalty either. It’s just some clumsy rules text, so we deal with it.

Yeah that was FAQ'd

D20 wrote:

This only applies to Two-Weapon Fighting since FAQ, originally applied to all penalties.

[CBDunkerson]

Melkiador wrote:

I feel like the intention here is pretty clear. But it does say you don’t take “any” penalty. If you’re being legalistic about it, you could be using power attack on those attacks and not take that penalty either. It’s just some clumsy rules text, so we deal with it.

The description in the feat table is helpful here; "No two-weapon penalties when attacking with a shield"

That still leaves some other potential questions, but as noted they have been FAQ'd... it is only the TWF specific penalties and only for shields.