A fair few 1E adventures contained magic items that were plot specific such as slaying arrows and bane weapons
These no longer exist. Seemingly by design?
But how could these be replicated or replaced? Say you wanted to a conversion or have an adventure focused on dragon or demon hunting?
Does anyone have any advice?
A fair few 1E adventures contained magic items that were plot specific such as slaying arrows and bane weapons
These no longer exist. Seemingly by design?
But how could these be replicated or replaced? Say you wanted to a conversion or have an adventure focused on dragon or demon hunting?
Does anyone have any advice?
Well, demons are easy to replicate. Drop a holy cold iron weapon and it will trigger 2 weaknesses with every hit. Demons are the most straightforward, but weakness mechanics do make it easier to make effective weapons against many monsters.
More broadly, I've struggled a little myself. I've been leaning towards a +1 item bonus that stacks with potency runes and 2d6 damage myself, but I've also considered making it two additional damage dice of the weapon and few other things.
Invent a slaying arrow that slays a specific monster on a hit, but acts as a regular +1 arrow if shot at anything else. Consumed upon a hit.
Story/quest function accomplished.
I think it is a little harder than that. The PF1 version dealt 50 damage, but didn't kill anyone outside of that. And in PF2, you also need to figure out the DC. PF1 item DCs were notoriously wonky.
That said, I bet I could make a consumable item using the GMG guidelines easier than w permanent bane weapon.
Thanks Rainzax - an interesting starting point
What about if you already roll a critical? Either another damage die or perhaps gains the Fatal D12 condition?
For Bane weapons perhaps make them impart a unique weakness against the weapon? Although players prefer rolling more themselves and that would have the same effect
Ok, Bane weapons were brought up, and it is something I ran into as I am looking at how to convert the Beginner box adventure to second edition.
Its kind of wonky with the treasure it gives, since I think it is, intentionally a bit generous as it is an introductory adventure and is trying to get people exited about the types of stories they can tell.
Anyway I came up with realizing the custom magic item and the Bane item and the partial charge wands didn't really have a good analog in the game now treasure-wise. So trying to 'convert' the treasure was problematic.
I know the better general answer to treasure as has been talked about was to 'redo' treasure from scratch based on expectations for party and level. But given that two of the items are actually important to proper completion of the introductory story to survive the climax encounter, it seems important to have analogs for them.
All that said, it seemed important part of the game design to reduce the 'need' for weapon against this specific thing, or making that a hands down best thing to have if you are fighting that. So I don't want to make Bane weapons simply something you borrow at a lower level to make you a higher level equivalent when fighting monster X.
Original Bane weapons got bonus extra + to hit and pretty sweet bonus damage. Below is what I came up with for a potential Bane property rune.
BANE RUNE 7
MAGICAL NECROMANCY
Price 65 gp
Usage etched onto a melee or ranged weapon
Weapons with bane runes are said to thirst for blood. Bane weapons are attuned to a particular type of creature. When using a weapon with this rune against an opponent with that trait, the weapon acts as it has a couple extra properties. The weapon calculates its MAP penalty on attacks against a foe with its bane trait as if the weapon has the agile property. It does not actually make the weapon an agile weapon, nor does it enable any abilities that require agile weapons, it only cause the calculation of MAP to be done as if it were an agile weapon. When you hit a creature of the designated type with a bane weapon, you deal extra damage as if the weapon had a striking rune on it.
I chose making the weapon behave as an agile weapon, because the item in the dungeon wasn't agile, and by making it agile it would boost second and subsequent attacks with it, without boosting the initial one. A means of trying to encourage the wielder to barrage the foe with attacks, not make all of them much more likely to hit.
In the vein of the advantage having a cost, I was contemplating having an extra drawback to them. Bane weapons make you thirst for taking such foes down. Any time you have held/wielded the weapon within sight and 60' of an entity with the designated trait that you were aware of, the weapon pushes you to be obsessed with the foe. Until you rest for 10 minutes to calm yourself, you receive a -1 status penalty on your AC and and any mental skill or perception rolls not aimed at tracking down the creature. This can be the same as the Refocus action the character has. You also are subject to a -1 penalty against any diplomacy checks against such creatures until you perform such a rest anytime you wield such a weapon, even if you do not leave any creatures up.
What that does, is make the traditional powerful, Bane Humans weapon a little more impact, leaving someone potentially not wanting that rune on their weapon. They may not want a Goblin bane sword when one of their party members is a goblin or hobgoblin, as leaving one standing will debuff them partially.
I like the idea of the Slaying rune moving the success up a tier. Originally, I was thinking only move a hit, to a critical, but in retrospect, being able to have it convert a miss to a hit would be very useful for attacking creatures of a higher level than you. If the original was already a hit. Instead of doubling the damage. Roll damage and add what would have been maximum damage for a regular hit.
Consumables can have the rune inscribed on them for some appropriately high price. Sort of like a super striking rune or talisman/trinket.
Non-consumable weapons can have a slaying rune inscribed on it, but it is a consumable rune. It grants a reaction, that when you strike at an eligible creature with it the first time you strike it that day, you can spend your reaction to raise the type of success of a miss or hit (or increase damage of a crit to equal normal max + a normal roll). If used, it is consumed. If you have to opportunity to use the rune on a creature, and don't, the creature doesn't prompt opportunities to use the rune for 24 hours from you.
I suppose thinking of it, that would mean perhaps instead of runes, slaying would be something added via talismans that get affixed to a weapon or ammunition. So perhaps thinking of it as a rune that is weapon eccentric is the wrong direction. With that in mind maybe it should simply produce damage = to 2x the target's level + triggering the creatures highest weakness if it hasn't already. The creature gets a saving throw to prevent deactivating any fast healing the creature has, with the DC based on the class DC of the attacker. If they fail, fast healing is stopped until the end of their turn, and any healing performed on them until then, magic or not is halved.
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For a reference point, the disrupting (greater) rune has a slaying effect vs undead.
https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=294
A disrupting weapon pulses with positive energy, dealing an extra 1d6 positive damage to undead.
On a critical hit, the undead is also enfeebled 1 until the end of your next turn.
Disrupting (Greater) Item 14 - 4300gp
Increase the extra damage to 2d6.
On a critical hit, instead of being enfeebled 1, the undead creature must attempt a DC 34 Fortitude save with the following effects.
This is an incapacitation effect.
Critical Success It’s enfeebled 1 until the end of your next turn.
Success It’s enfeebled 2 until the end of your next turn.
Failure It’s enfeebled 3 until the end of your next turn.
Critical Failure It’s destroyed.
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I like the idea of just taking the disrupting rune and retooling it for other species Example:
Lyanthrope Bane Standard - Item 5 - 150gp
A Lyanthrope Bane weapon pulses with silvery energy, dealing an extra 1d6 damage(of weapon type) and counts as silver to Lyanthropes.
On a critical hit, the Lyanthrope is also enfeebled 1 until the end of your next turn.
Lyanthrope Bane (Greater) Item 14 - 4300gp
Increase the extra damage to 2d6.
On a critical hit, instead of being enfeebled 1, the Lyanthrope must attempt a DC 34 Fortitude save with the following effects.
This is an incapacitation effect.
Critical Success It’s enfeebled 1 until the end of your next turn.
Success It’s enfeebled 2 until the end of your next turn.
Failure It’s enfeebled 3 until the end of your next turn.
Critical Failure It’s destroyed.
Yeah turning Bane weapons into alternate Disrupting weapons is a pretty decent idea. I'm surprised I didn't think of it. My one issue is the normal version doesn't feel much more effective than an elemental rune, unless you can tie it another weakness. The greater version does fine on its own.
Then again, tying it to another weakness or resistance works well for a lot of creatures: fiends, golems, fey, etc... It doesn't work as well for more varied creatures like dragons or beasts though.
If I was doing a lychantrope bane rune, I would make it slightly stronger (or lower level) than the Disrupting one, as undeads are a much broader category.
Imagine a similar rune that only works against vampires: it shouldn't have the same level, cost and effect of the more often useful Disrupting one.
If I was doing a lychantrope bane rune, I would make it slightly stronger (or lower level) than the Disrupting one, as undeads are a much broader category.
Imagine a similar rune that only works against vampires: it shouldn't have the same level, cost and effect of the more often useful Disrupting one.
Might depend on if it's just the same effects as a Disrupting Rune or if has other benefits. For example, a vampire specific rune could count as a silver weapon for resistance purposes (level appropriate grade special materials are pretty expensive) and could count as a wooden stake for heart stabbing purposes (much like the necklace of knives.) A rune priced at Disrupting's 150 gold would be a much cheaper investment than a standard grade silver weapon, for example.