Diego Rossi
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I am mastering a high-level campaign and the players will move along wast stretch of land with Wind Walk. Generally, that isn't a problem in some areas they will have to maneuver around obstacles and other hazards.
At that point, it become important to know how the poor maneuverability of the high-speed version of Wind Walk and other forms of flight with their maneuverability (most Overland flight) interact.
My personal opinion is that you get the maneuverability of the speed you are using, i.e. if you go at 600'/round you have poor maneuverability if you go 40'/round you have perfect maneuverability (I don't see anything that say you can't use a fly speed that don't depend on your physical form while gaseous), but I am interested in reading other people opinions.
Captain Zoom
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I am mastering a high-level campaign and the players will move along wast stretch of land with Wind Walk. Generally, that isn't a problem in some areas they will have to maneuver around obstacles and other hazards.
At that point, it become important to know how the poor maneuverability of the high-speed version of Wind Walk and other forms of flight with their maneuverability (most Overland flight) interact.
My personal opinion is that you get the maneuverability of the speed you are using, i.e. if you go at 600'/round you have poor maneuverability if you go 40'/round you have perfect maneuverability (I don't see anything that say you can't use a fly speed that don't depend on your physical form while gaseous), but I am interested in reading other people opinions.
I assume your players are flying nap of earth at 60 miles per hour for some reason? When my characters wind walk (to travel long distances), we do it up in the clouds where there is nothing to run into.
Remember, you are flying, not walking along the ground.
| Shinoskay |
Fly checks are really fun, pulling maneuvers in the air that you totally made yourself is most of the joy of 3d combat... and aerial combat is 3d combat.
Imagine it like jet fights, someone is chasing you and you want to reverse on them or get behind them. 'cutting the engines' is really easier here, you drop backwards to be aiming up and they are now above you... bam, take your shot... then 'turn the engines back on' and shoot up to or past them to adjust to follow.
making this about the speed itself needlessly limits that dogfight thrill and fun.
I think in cases where it doesnt say, you shouldnt consider the source. If it's a spell, look at how strong or weak it is and what it says. wind walk would probably be good maneuverability and Overland flight would probably normal since orverland flight is meant to propel you in a direction where windwalk is meant to be the same as walking.
Also, I really dislike the editors notes on paizo for overland flight... personally, I would ignore that.
Diego Rossi
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Diego Rossi wrote:I am mastering a high-level campaign and the players will move along wast stretch of land with Wind Walk. Generally, that isn't a problem in some areas they will have to maneuver around obstacles and other hazards.
At that point, it become important to know how the poor maneuverability of the high-speed version of Wind Walk and other forms of flight with their maneuverability (most Overland flight) interact.
My personal opinion is that you get the maneuverability of the speed you are using, i.e. if you go at 600'/round you have poor maneuverability if you go 40'/round you have perfect maneuverability (I don't see anything that say you can't use a fly speed that don't depend on your physical form while gaseous), but I am interested in reading other people opinions.
I assume your players are flying nap of earth at 60 miles per hour for some reason? When my characters wind walk (to travel long distances), we do it up in the clouds where there is nothing to run into.
Remember, you are flying, not walking along the ground.
Besides the resolvable (with magic) problems of the temperature and oxygen when flying at a high quote over high mountains, there are points in the adventure when they will have to fly nap in some part of the adventure and 10' round is very different from 600' round. And one of the opponents has wind walk at will and can activate it as a free action, so the maneuverability becomes important for both sides.
| GotAFarmYet? |
At that point, it become important to know how the poor maneuverability of the high-speed version of Wind Walk and other forms of flight with their maneuverability (most Overland flight) interact.
My personal opinion is that you get the maneuverability of the speed you are using, i.e. if you go at 600'/round you have poor maneuverability if you go 40'/round you have perfect maneuverability (I don't see anything that say you can't use a fly speed that don't depend on your physical form while gaseous), but I am interested in reading other people opinions.
Everything should have a base maneuverability, and simply add increments of speed while decrease it by one step. Once you get to None at that speed they can only fly straight and have to decrease speed to turn or break a wing or something. You can also add a Difficultly level increase to turn for every step starting at the best of the chart to the worse.
Prefect 0
Good 2
Average 5
Poor 10
Clumsy 20
None cannot turn
set each decrease at a 50% increase in speed, and let them add there flying skill to a d20. So you start as average on the scale you can fly at 50% of your max speed and have a DC of 5 plus other conditions. If you increase to 75% of your top speed the DC is now 10, and man is at poor.at 88% of top speed you are clumsy and a DC of 20. at 94% of top speed or higher you cannot turn. (the last ones if starting at Good is 97%, and perfect goes to 99%)
If you start at Clumsy anything is pretty much a dangerous maneuver, and if above 50% of top speed a straight line travel.
Shinoskay,
Jets actually have this problem too, and top gun is actually a bad example of what to do. You let a someone with a wand of lighting bolts near you and that would be the end of it. In a air battle you trade alt for speed and use a turn radius and pulled Gs' to get a favorable position. Truth be told most fights are at several miles with missiles.
| Quixote |
Diego Rossi, you're saying that, if a character has two forms of flight, they can only use a given form's maneuverability if they fly at or under that form's speed? So if you move 10ft or less, you can use the slower version of Wind Walk, 40ft or less you can use Overland Flight, anything up to 600ft and you use the faster version of Wind Walk. Is that the jist of it?
If so, it sounds right to me. If Spell 1 gives you fly speed A and maneuverability B and Spell 2 gives fly speed C and maneuverability D, you can't use B if C is greater than A.
Speed and maneuverability aren't separate elements that you gain independently. You don't get to pick the highest speed and the best maneuverability; each value is an aspect of the spell.
It's an interesting element; multiple fly speeds with different maneuverabilities. I've always thought Fly would be a cool choice for a dragon when facing flying characters; they think they can zip in and out all around him, when suddenly he turns on a dime and engulfs them all in fire.
| Chell Raighn |
So, reading over Wind Walk, it seems pretty clear how it's speed & maneuverability would interact with other forms of flight, if even at all...
While under Wind Walk, you normally have 2 options that you can switch between at will, 10ft(Perfect) or 600ft(Poor). If you have any other forms of flight with different speeds, their maneuverabilities would apply at their appropriate speeds. So with Overland Flight you'd add the 40ft(Good).
This results in the following:
Any speed from 0-10ft with Perfect Maneuverability
Any speed from 0-40ft with Good Maneuverability
Any speed from 0-600ft with Poor Maneuverability
Thats' a lot of overlap... but the overlap can be easily ignored as it can generally be assumed that from 0-10ft speed the subject will be relying on Wind Walk, from 11ft-40ft they will rely on Overland Flight, and anything above that is from the high speed gust of wind via Windwalk...
Do keep in mind though, that if your players say that they are using the wind gust to propel themselves, then at that point it doesn't matter what speed they actually go, their maneuverability is Poor until they command the wind to stop.
It's also worth noting, that some forms of flight might not actually work with Air Walk due to the spell causing a change in your physical form... It's actually unclear as to if you can even add any extra forms of flight while under the effects of Wind Walk as is... Your players might actually be required to spend 5 rounds leaving the gaseous form to even benefit from Overland Flight, at which point they may as well just stick to Wind Walk and accept the poor maneuverability...
| Shinoskay |
Shinoskay,
Jets actually have this problem too, and top gun is actually a bad example of what to do. You let a someone with a wand of lighting bolts near you and that would be the end of it. In a air battle you trade alt for speed and use a turn radius and pulled Gs' to get a favorable position. Truth be told most fights are at several miles with missiles.
Irrelevant to what I said, strawman fllacy, also this is magic as was presented above.
I already said that maneuverability would depend on method of flight and descriptions of how it works.