| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The text:
Traditions arcane
Cast 10 minutes (somatic, verbal)
Range touch; Targets 1 non-magical object up to 20 cubic feet in volume and up to 80 Bulk
Duration 1 day
You shrink the target to roughly the size of a coin. This reduces it to negligible Bulk. You can Dismiss the spell, and the spell ends if you toss the object onto a solid surface. The object can't be used to attack or cause damage during the process of it returning to normal size. If there isn't room for the object to return to normal size when the spell ends, the spell's duration continues until the object is in a location large enough to accommodate its normal size.-----
The shrunk item becomes a coin-sized object for a day. If there isn't enough room, it will not expand even if the duration ends.
What happens if I make or buy a small wooden box, and put the shrunk item in it? Would it remain shrunk until I open the box?
Yes.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Now all I can imagine is this. :)
My wizard has little coin pockets he puts shrunk items into.
The only issue with the spell is figuring out what bulk larger items are. Taking that 20 cubic feet as water, you have 149.61 gallons: at 8.34 pounds per gallon that's 1247.7474 pounds. At 5-10 per bulk that's 124 bulk being the most generous. 80 bulk would be a max of 800 pounds and fits into an average refrigerator. So you can guesstimate real world items but bigger items in the game tend not to list bulk: take vehicles for instance. A 10'x5'X1' fits the size requirements but does it fit the bulk?
The only problem with that is "bulk" is not an exact science. The 10 pounds per bulk isn't a rule, insomuch as it is a guidelines to get the GM started with ad hoc estimations.
Or do you think all medium creatures are only 60 pounds? :P
The only problem with that is "bulk" is not an exact science. The 10 pounds per bulk isn't a rule, insomuch as it is a guidelines to get the GM started with ad hoc estimations.
Or do you think all medium creatures are only 60 pounds? :P
Aren't you proving my point about "issue with the spell is figuring out what bulk larger items are." My numbers are purely on the conversion numbers [the only thing we got]. Somehow there are also 'unwieldness'/'ease of use' factors involved but I'm not sure those factor into something outside of normal PC carry/lift numbers. If you personally can't lift/carry it, it can't be wielded at all so unwieldiness can't be a factor IMO. For instance, a boat can carry 1,000 Bulk but it doesn't care how easy it is to pick up and move but that's an integral factor in bulk.
PS: I'm not sure creature bulk is a good example of sane conversion numbers but again, that's what we got: they tell us a 1/2 orc we'd normally say was 215 weight can be carried off by a halfling tossing them over their shoulder with out any loss of movement and without magic... So that 60 pound number seems more reasonable than going with what we'd think of as real world numbers. ;)
I mean 20 cubic feet is only 2' x 5' x 2'. A Gargantuan Creature is only 48 bulk and it's a minimum of 20' x 20' x 15', so I think it's safe to say that basically anything within 20 Cubic Feet would be well below 80 Bulk.
Even using the "Estimating an Item's Bulk" rules, 80 bulk is 800 pounds.
I find it unlikely that anything that size is going to be that heavy.
I mean maybe if it's a solid lead block or something. Well, actually a solid block of any element heavier than Lithium, but still.
I find it unlikely that anything that size is going to be that heavy.
A block of water is over that 800 limit by almost 500 pounds and metal items are going to have to be heavier than that, so I don't think we need a solid block to exceed the limit. Iron weighs 485 pounds per cubic foot, Marble weighs 160 pounds per cubic foot, Granite weighs 168 pounds per cubic foot, Steel weighs 490 pounds per cubic foot... Even wood can hit 85 pounds per cubic feet.
This means anything fairly solid made of wood, even at the average @60/cubic feet, means you aren't getting to the 20 cubic foot limit but closer to 13. So in the case of that a simple raft might not make the weight limit. Then things like statures, large chests, furniture, ect are likely to exceed the weight before it exceeds the size limits especially if they have metal in them. For instance a iron bound chest is likely much smaller than the 20 cube foot limit.
PS: you could also have items bigger that than 20 cubic foot area as you aren't measuring it's size but volume so the empty spaces in the item aren't counted. The displacement volume of a chest can be larger than the empty space volume of 2' x 5' x 2': it only has to meet 2' x 5' x 2' if it's 100% solid.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
PS: I'm not sure creature bulk is a good example of sane conversion numbers but again, that's what we got: they tell us a 1/2 orc we'd normally say was 215 weight can be carried off by a halfling tossing them over their shoulder with out any loss of movement and without magic... So that 60 pound number seems more reasonable than going with what we'd think of as real world numbers. ;)
I'd say a full orc is around 215 lbs. So a 1/2 orc would be around 108 lbs. ;)
I find it unlikely that anything that size is going to be that heavy.A block of water is over that 800 limit by almost 500 pounds and metal items are going to have to be heavier than that, so I don't think we need a solid block to exceed the limit. Iron weighs 485 pounds per cubic foot, Marble weighs 160 pounds per cubic foot, Granite weighs 168 pounds per cubic foot, Steel weighs 490 pounds per cubic foot... Even wood can hit 85 pounds per cubic feet.
This means anything fairly solid made of wood, even at the average @60/cubic feet, means you aren't getting to the 20 cubic foot limit but closer to 13. So in the case of that a simple raft might not make the weight limit. Then things like statures, large chests, furniture, ect are likely to exceed the weight before it exceeds the size limits especially if they have metal in them. For instance a iron bound chest is likely much smaller than the 20 cube foot limit.
Good job reading the rest of my post.
A raft would easily be within the limit. An actual metal refrigerator is only 400 pounds. A raft made out of wood, which is much less dense, you know, so it will float, is much lighter.
PS: you could also have items bigger that than 20 cubic foot area as you aren't measuring it's size but volume so the empty spaces in the item aren't counted. The displacement volume of a chest can be larger than the empty space volume of 2' x 5' x 2': it only has to meet 2' x 5' x 2' if it's 100% solid.
I seriously doubt that is the intention. Nobody in their right mind expects anyone to calculate the displacement volume of an object for this game. You are literally the only person who would read it like that.
I'd say a full orc is around 215 lbs. So a 1/2 orc would be around 108 lbs. ;)
Ha!
PS: I'm not sure creature bulk is a good example of sane conversion numbers but again, that's what we got: they tell us a 1/2 orc we'd normally say was 215 weight can be carried off by a halfling tossing them over their shoulder with out any loss of movement and without magic... So that 60 pound number seems more reasonable than going with what we'd think of as real world numbers. ;)I'd say a full orc is around 215 lbs. So a 1/2 orc would be around 108 lbs. ;)
I used the PF1 weights: male (164 – 318 lbs.), female (124 – 278 lbs.). Full orc is male (174 – 328 lbs.), female (134 – 288 lbs.). 215 is pretty much in the middle of those numbers.
A raft would easily be within the limit. An actual metal refrigerator is only 400 pounds. A raft made out of wood, which is much less dense, you know, so it will float, is much lighter.
The aren't really equivalent: the refrigerator isn't solid metal it's hollow inside, a plastic interior and has Polyurethane rigid foam for insulation vs a raft made of solid logs... Apples and oranges.
PS: and refrigerators DO float...
I seriously doubt that is the intention. Nobody in their right mind expects anyone to calculate the displacement volume of an object for this game. You are literally the only person who would read it like that.
It might not be be the intent that that's how volume works: you figure out the volume of irregular objects that way. It doesn't say 'fits inside a 20 cubic feet area'. If it wasn't that way, it'd be MUCH easier to give simple existing terms instead of volume? IE say 'up to medium size' vs an exact volume. IMO, when they go out of their way to give exact measurements they might actually want you to follow them ;)