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~"The target must attempt a basic Reflex save."
A "basic save" means that damage is:
x2 on a crit fail,
x1 on a fail,
x1/2 on a success,
x0 on a crit success
~"On a failure, the target also is clumsy 2 for 1 round and takes 1 persistent electricity damage."
This includes a crit fail.
Thank you for the reply,
So in your opinion the damages are
on a crit fail: 2x xd12 + standard persistent damage and clumsy 2 1 rnd
on a fail: xd12 + standard persistent damage and clumsy 2 1 rnd
on a success: 1/2 xd12
on a crit success: 0 damageRight?
Correct
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I mean it saysThe problem is not the basic saving throws rule, that is pretty clear.
The problem is the text of tempest surge: if I must read raw the the save from the entry is not basic (Saving Throw Reflex) and it is not explained.
Over this, why don't the persistent damage double on critical fail? It say basic save...IMHO this spell is bad worded
I can follow the logic and see the idea but as I read it the damage is always full and can't be halved. Then Persistence damage can be also doubled on critical fail
The target must attempt a basic Reflex save.
I don't know how that could possibly not be a basic saving throw.
Perhaps this is an issue with a translated CRB?
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Simply because that is not indicated in the section "Saving Throw" as for all other spells with basic save
https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=479
So i can think that the save is only for the persistent damage+clumsy 2 ^^
No. Whenever the rules say "Basic x Saving throw" that always refers to the damage dealt. Anything else mentioned in this text (in this case, clumsy and persistent damage on a failure) is an additional rider that happens at certain points.
So when it says "On a failure, the target also is clumsy 2 for 1 round and takes 1 persistent electricity damage," that means in addition to the result of the saving throw vs. the damage.
Does that make sense?
Critical success: no damage taken
Success: half damage taken
Failure: full damage taken, clumsy and persistent damage applied
Critical failure: double damage taken, clumsy and persistent damage applied (persistent damage does not double or the text would specifically say so)
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Simply because that is not indicated in the section "Saving Throw" as for all other spells with basic save
https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=479
So i can think that the save is only for the persistent damage+clumsy 2 ^^
There are a bunch of Spells with Basic Saves that don't say Basic Save in the Saving Throw section. As far as I can tell, it only ever says Basic Save in the Saving Throw section if the spell only does damage and nothing else.
Anathematic Reprisal
Blade Barrier
Chain Lightning
Chill Touch
Chromatic Wall
Daze
Disintegrate
Disrupt Undead
Flaming Sphere
Harm
Heal
Hydraulic Torrent
Phantasmal Calamity
Storm of Vengeance
Lay on Hands
Storm Lord
Tempest Surge
These are all spells that require a Basic Saving Throw, but don't say that in the Saving Throw section.