I am new to pathfinder and am going to be playing in a campaign that will have rotating party members, so I want to make a character that can function regardless of what players are present. They best way I thought of to do this was a jack of all trades kind if build that got better at doing stuff with more allies. As almost all of our players have low intelligence and charisma scores I want a character that makes use of those skills, and ideally I would like to have combat be martial. Any suggestions?
Bard!
High Charisma. Lots of skills. Decent combat competence.
It doesn't matter what the party is made up of, you will be useful to everyone.
Use a longspear, take Combat Reflexes. Later on, take Flagbearer, and get a Banner of Ancient Kings.
That's pretty much all you need.
So many suggestions. You're looking for someone everyone needs, makes use of Int and Cha, and is a martial combatant.
1. Magus: martial 3/4 BAB with Int for spellcasting, fun powers and martial abilities over time, good at using spells to buff self but also others.
2. Bard or Skald: martial 3/4 BAB with Cha for abilities, Int for lore and skills, good skills monkey type with utility spells and abilities that boost large groups
Bloodrager: minor spells, Cha based, but some skill use and lots of martial capabilities
Investigator: not much use for Cha other than in skill use but TONS of skills and skill utility, 3/4 BAB martial type with a class ability to give a modest damage boost
Rogue (Unchained), Slayer, Ranger: martial types, lots of skills monkey capability, decent damage bumps from class abilities or extra feats (or both from Slayer), not much for Cha to do except in skill use; ranger gets some minor spell use but you might trade that out in an Archetype; ranger also gets a minor Animal Companion for extra martial capability
Cavalier: not much use for Int other than skills, not much of a skills monkey, but full BAB, hands out Teamwork feats so good in groups, and while mounted plenty of damage dealing capability
Are you looking for specific build advice? What kind of character stands out to you/what in particular do you want to do in martial combat? What other questions do you have? Also... great name Checkov!
Can you tell us how many players and what they are already playing?
Bard is probably a good choice, since it sounds like there isn’t already one.
Melkiador wrote: Can you tell us how many players and what they are already playing?
Bard is probably a good choice, since it sounds like there isn’t already one.
Unfortunately idk how many players nor do I know all of their builds, I know 1 is an alchemist, and 1 is some disease spreading build.
Mark Hoover 330 wrote: So many suggestions. You're looking for someone everyone needs, makes use of Int and Cha, and is a martial combatant.
1. Magus: martial 3/4 BAB with Int for spellcasting, fun powers and martial abilities over time, good at using spells to buff self but also others.
2. Bard or Skald: martial 3/4 BAB with Cha for abilities, Int for lore and skills, good skills monkey type with utility spells and abilities that boost large groups
Bloodrager: minor spells, Cha based, but some skill use and lots of martial capabilities
Investigator: not much use for Cha other than in skill use but TONS of skills and skill utility, 3/4 BAB martial type with a class ability to give a modest damage boost
Rogue (Unchained), Slayer, Ranger: martial types, lots of skills monkey capability, decent damage bumps from class abilities or extra feats (or both from Slayer), not much for Cha to do except in skill use; ranger gets some minor spell use but you might trade that out in an Archetype; ranger also gets a minor Animal Companion for extra martial capability
Cavalier: not much use for Int other than skills, not much of a skills monkey, but full BAB, hands out Teamwork feats so good in groups, and while mounted plenty of damage dealing capability
Are you looking for specific build advice? What kind of character stands out to you/what in particular do you want to do in martial combat? What other questions do you have? Also... great name Checkov!
Thank you for the advice, though I think there is a misunderstanding in what I'm looking for. With teamwork feats you can get bonuses for stuff if your ally also has the feat. I am looking for something that effectively either turns allies into my personal support/something where I just get buffs for having allies nearby, not so much buffing my allies. As far as martial goes, I dont care if its ranged or melee, but I dislike spells as a combat form as I find it boring, though I am not opposed to having them to augment martial combat.
VoodistMonk wrote: Bard!
High Charisma. Lots of skills. Decent combat competence.
It doesn't matter what the party is made up of, you will be useful to everyone.
Use a longspear, take Combat Reflexes. Later on, take Flagbearer, and get a Banner of Ancient Kings.
That's pretty much all you need.
I like the idea of bard magic augmenting my abilities, and am not opposed to them also effecting my allies, but I want something more along the lines of my allies presence always making my character stronger. Best example I can think of is a bit weebish, but Ichigo from Bleach performs better when his allies are nearby.
This option is a lot to take in for a beginner, but a summoner is a charisma based class that can cover a lot of roles. You have a good spell list and a pet that can be built to be good at combat, skills, defense, or a combination of those. And it has relatively low need on stats, so you could have a pretty good intelligence too without sacrificing much. But, it's one of the more complicated classes to pick up and can easily have long turn times if you aren't prepared.
Edit: The closest I can think of to someone who gets stronger from having teammates is the inquisitor and his solo teamwork feats.
Inquisitor with Solo Tactics sounds like it might be what you are looking for.
Melkiador wrote: This option is a lot to take in for a beginner, but a summoner is a charisma based class that can cover a lot of roles. You have a good spell list and a pet that can be built to be good at combat, skills, defense, or a combination of those. And it has relatively low need on stats, so you could have a pretty good intelligence too without sacrificing much. But, it's one of the more complicated classes to pick up and can easily have long turn times if you aren't prepared.
Edit: The closest I can think of to someone who gets stronger from having teammates is the inquisitor and his solo teamwork feats.
I was looking at an inquisitor teamwork feat build, but I did not see many feats that gave stacking bonuses for more allies (charge feats were all I saw for that), and most of the feats only really worked if my allies had the feats to assist me in doing stuff, though I could assist them, which was not what I was looking for. Am I missing the teamwork feats that give me the bonuses I am looking for?
Mostly, Pathfinder just doesn't have a build like what you are wanting. It's an interesting idea for a new class, and I've seen things like that in some MMOs, but I can't think of anything in Pathfinder that does it. Solo Tactics is about as close as it gets.
There are some racial things for Kobolds that are similar to what you are looking for, but not really.
You could be an Archeologist Bard or a Dervish of Dawn Bard... both of which are more focused on buffing themselves rather than the rest of the party.
Solo Tactics still is probably your best bet.
Melkiador wrote: Mostly, Pathfinder just doesn't have a build like what you are wanting. It's an interesting idea for a new class, and I've seen things like that in some MMOs, but I can't think of anything in Pathfinder that does it. Solo Tactics is about as close as it gets. Thank you for the advice, I will take a close look at the Inquisitor and post what I end up doing.
VoodistMonk wrote: There are some racial things for Kobolds that are similar to what you are looking for, but not really.
You could be an Archeologist Bard or a Dervish of Dawn Bard... both of which are more focused on buffing themselves rather than the rest of the party.
Solo Tactics still is probably your best bet.
Thank you for the advice, I will look at Kobold, i hadn't even thought of races yet.
Nuclear Wesles wrote: I am new to pathfinder and am going to be playing in a campaign that will have rotating party members, so I want to make a character that can function regardless of what players are present. Wizard, Cleric, Sorcerer, or Oracle all come to mind. Wizards and Clerics in particular depend for their power upon a vast list of spells that they can pick an choose from on a day-to-day basis, completely changing their toolkits from one day to the next. Meanwhile, the party always needs someone to ravish their enemies with eldritch power, and the party always needs a medic. Clerics are particularly good at adapting their daily spells: they automatically know all the Cleric Spells and can pick an choose every day.
Nuclear Wesles wrote: They best way I thought of to do this was a jack of all trades kind if build that got better at doing stuff with more allies. Rogues, Bards and Inquisitors have the most Skill Points.
VoodistMonk wrote: Bard!
High Charisma. Lots of skills. Decent combat competence.
It doesn't matter what the party is made up of, you will be useful to everyone.
Yes. That
Nuclear Wesles wrote: almost all of our players have low intelligence and charisma You are referring to their characters, right? You aren't telling us that all your playmates are stupid, ugly people?
Nuclear Wesles wrote: I want a character that makes use of those skills, and ideally I would like to have combat be martial. Any suggestions? So Oracles and Sorcerers rely on Charisma. Wizards rely on Intelligence.
Paladins also rely on Charisma, and they are Martial characters. There is a Paladin Archetype, Holy Tactician that gains the Cavalier Tactician Class Ability, allowing them to gift any Teamwork Feats to all their allies. And they are martial characters.
Usually, for a melee character, I don't end up single classing. I think up or pick some combination of Feats Class Abilities and/or Spells that I just think it wicked and makes me smile, and put them together, mixing and matching classes as I deem necessary. So for advice from me on how to build a wicked melee character bearing in mind the other things you want, I need to know what kinds of thing you want to do in melee.
The biggest way to get mechanical bonuses from your fellow PCs is through Aid Another bonuses and there's not a really good way to FORCE you allies to aid you. There's Swarming if you and another PC take the Ratfolk race or as mentioned there's a similar mechanic with kobolds but otherwise Solo Tactics from the Inquisitor to gain Teamwork feat benefits from allies is about your only option.
Except...
Don't rely on your teammates, rely on your own minions. There's the Summoner, as mentioned above. For a more martial method you've got a Fighter or Rogue archetype that gives you a Familiar; take the Mauler archetype on the Familiar and it might survive one round on the frontline and then be able to give you Flanking bonuses or Aid Another bonuses.
If you're new to PF you might not know what these mean. With the Aid Another action one creature can grant another either a +2 to their next Attack roll or a +2 to their AC against the next attack on them. Flanking is when 2 creatures are directly opposite one another with a common foe they're fighting between them; this tactical position gives both of the allied combatants a +2 on their attacks against the foe in between them.
There's also Animal Companions. These things are usually a bit stronger and more combat-ready than a Familiar. Rangers, Clerics with the Animal domain, Druids, and multiple other classes get one of these. You can use these to be your flanker and Aid Another partner.
In fact, if you want a martial type with good attacks, doesn't use spells except for self-buffs and is focused on Int and Cha, you could choose an Oracle with the Lunar mystery. Oracles are a 3/4 BAB martial type that also get spells. These spells are Divine in nature and the primary casting stat is Cha. Choosing only buff spells you could be using them to improve your martial abilities.
An Oracle's "mystery" lets them pick special abilities called Revelations at certain levels. One of these for the Lunar mystery is Primal Companion that gives you a small amount of Animal Companions to pick from. Get yourself a Wolf, a Tiger or a Boar and you've got something with a single big attack that can be at your side or acting as your Flanking buddy in combat.
Another way to go might be just to take a Cavalier or Paladin. Cavaliers get an Animal Companion that acts as their loyal mount from level 1 but there's not really a lot to do with their Cha or Int scores. Paladin on the other hand doesn't get their AC until level 5 and you might want to spend a Feat to improve it at that time (Boon Companion) but their Smite special ability benefits from high Cha and decent Int never hurts anyone.
Both of these classes are Full BAB martial types. Both are solid warriors, don't rely heavily on spells, and the Paladin in particular has some really good defenses as well while the Cavalier is all about mounted combat.
Finally, if you want strength in numbers and can't count on getting that from your allies all the time, think about taking a spellcaster focused in part around Summon Monster or Summon Nature's Ally spells. Unless you're playing the Summoner class, casting these spells takes 1 full round (meaning you start it on your turn on one round and finish it the next round just before you take your action that next round). However, if you have the time to set this tactic up you could surround yourself on the frontline with up to 4 creatures; 5 if you also have an Animal Companion or Familiar of Small size or larger with you in combat.
If you can communicate with and coordinate the tactics of your summoned creatures, you could each of these things giving you an Aid Another bonus. Coupled with at least 1 Flanking bonus, 5 creatures provide you a +12 to attack your foe with your next attack! Not a bad buff.
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