What does exactly Weapon training give me?
I'm honestly confused. This is not for PFS.
I understand the following:
5 > +1 attack/damage
9 > +2 attack/damage
13 > +3 attack/damage
17 > +4 attack/damage
- Also, I get this benefit to Combat maneuver with my Sacred Weapon, and to my CMD when defending against disarm and sunder attempts made against the sacred weapon.
Questions:
- Do all weapons I have Weapon Focus with get the same benefit? So I could have a Dagger and Longbow, both of them getting +2/+2 at level 9?
- Do I gain New weapon groups?
- Advanced Weapon Training > I understand I would NOT get new weapon groups? Am I correct?
- Do I qualify for feats that have Weapon Training as pre-requisite?
I'd like to know everything on how this works! Thanks
RAW, you gain every part of the Weapon Training (WT) class feature, including the selection of weapon groups. The Molthuni Arsenal Chaplain (MAC) ability adds a restriction ("the benefits of this weapon training apply only to the his sacred weapons"), that means only weapon in selected groups for which you have taken the Weapon Focus (WF) feat recieve any benefits.
The regular Advanced Weapon Training (AWT) option is Fighters only ("Beginning at 9th level, instead of selecting an additional fighter weapon group, a fighter can choose an advanced weapon training option"), it's not technically part of the Weapon Training class feature and thus an MAC doesn't gain it. You can select the feat as a Warpriest Bonus Feat.
I'm not sure if it's intended to be this way (I originally presumed it to work just like Mark Hoover 330 describes it), but that's the closest following of the written rules that I can see.
Do I qualify for feats that have Weapon Training as pre-requisite?
You do have a "weapon training class feature".
Ok thanks. Now that makes sense. The only thing I don't get it's the AWT feature because I'm not a fighter.
If I select a group with Dagger, and I have WF, Daggers will have WT.
If I select a group with Bow, and I have WF bow, Bows will have WT, albeit at a lower progression, just like the fighter.
And I can only access AWT with the Bonus Feat from Warpriest and only applies to my selected groups and weapons I have WF with.
Makes sense!
also, its good if youre already using a high damage output weapon like a samsaran with gravity bow and an orc hornbow, or a level of titan fighter with an oversized butchering axe, and dont need the standard scaling damage. the +1 to hit and damage is useful
Didn't even know that weapon, but I'm going melee, probably reach, still not sure though
One thing about the way weappn training works with this archetype is that it changrs how weapon focus works for the class.
If you're focusing on using reach weapons (weapon focus ranseur or something), but you feel you need a ranged option you can take weapon focus Longbow at level 9 and it gives you +3 to hit and +2 damage (or +5/+4 with gloves of dueking). It's not game-breaking but it means you get more from one feat than anyone else.
This also combines extremely well with spells like Divine Favour to give you a decent static damage output on your backup weapon with very little investment (so our level 9 warpriest with WF:Longbow, Gloves of dueling and Dovone Favour is getting +7 to hit and +6 to damage with every attack not counting BAB, Stats, Equipment or other feats).
also, its good if youre already using a high damage output weapon like a samsaran with gravity bow and an orc hornbow, or a level of titan fighter with an oversized butchering axe, and dont need the standard scaling damage. the +1 to hit and damage is useful
You don't need anything like that to make MAC better than the default. A weapon with 1d8 base damage has a higher average damage then the sacred weapon progression at all levels except 20. A 2d4 weapon is never worse, and everything above is always better. Until 15th level, every weapon in the game deals at elast as much average damage on an MAC as it does on a regular Warpriest.
All of that is not only without Gloves of Dueling, but also without the attack roll bonus. If we include the attack roll bonus, no matter what weapon you're using, MAC is better for dealing damage than a vanilla Warpriest.
You do have a "weapon training class feature".Arsenal Chaplins do.
Yes, that's what I said. I think you've misread my post.
you can take weapon focus Longbow at level 9 and it gives you +3 to hit and +2 damage (or +5/+4 with gloves of dueking).
The second group starts at +1/+1. Still makes for a way above average ranged option, of course.
In case it’s unclear, there are two interpretations of this.
A) Your weapon group is any weapon that is considered your sacred weapon. You don’t gain extra weapon groups, because it’s all in that one sacred weapon pseudo-group. This was the interpretation that PFS went with.
-Or-
B) You get weapon training groups exactly like a fighter does, but can only benefit from weapon training with your sacred weapons in that weapon group.
Depending on which interpretation you use, the answers can be different. Option B could choose to give up its level 9 weapon group for an advanced weapon training just like a fighter could, while A couldn’t. But either option should be able to take the advanced weapon training feat.
The problem with interpretation A is that there is absolutly no support for it in the written rules. The MAC ability does not use the term "weapon group" at all, so why should that part of the ability be changed? All the ability says that isn't "as per the fighter class feature" is that it adds an additional condition to which weapons recieve "the benefits of this weapon training". The weapon group selection is more of a limitation, really.
Option B could choose to give up its level 9 weapon group for an advanced weapon training just like a fighter could, while A couldn’t.
That would require AWT to be part of the weapon training class feature. I don't think that's the case, but there's only anecdotal evidence - Skald says it can use masterpieces, and AWT, AAT, and Advanced Versatile Performance all say that you don't get to use that option if you trade out the respective class feature via archetype, which would be highly redundant if it were part of the class feature. Similarily, the feat Exotic Heritage shows that the ability to select a mutated bloodline is not normally aviable via Eldritch Heritage.
On the other hand, druids, inquisitors, and other classes with access to domains can take subdomains. Paizo uses FAQs both for explanations and changes, so we don't know which kind this is.
Didn't even know that weapon, but I'm going melee, probably reach, still not sure though
If Paladin and Fighter are both melee, you really should consider archery - Warpriests make excellent archers, and MACs even more so.