PF2 - level played at 16-18 challenge points

[pauljathome]

I thought that an official statement had been made about how to handle groups of 5 or 6 players with 16-18 challenge points (the dreaded spot where sheer numbers can throw you into high tier) but I've been unable to find it.

We very nearly TPK'd due to the insanity of a group of level 1's and 2's (with 1 level 3) facing a L5 enemy.

Has the suggested change (groups with 5 or 6 players with 16-18 points) actually been made? If not, PLEASE make it.

[Pirate Rob]

It has been made, but only for scenarios going forward, it's just part of their scaling.

[pauljathome]

It REALLY needs to be made retroactively. The current rules make some of the earlier scenarios (Absalom Initiation, for example) just WAY too difficult and swingy.

Bad guy stats:

Not sure if this is always the bad guy, but we faced a demon with a rechargeable 6d6 30 ft cone DC 22 reflex save attack. Even with level bumps its not at all uncommon for level 1 or 2 characters to have poorish reflex saves and, at DC 22, crit fails aren't exactly a surprise (probably EXPECTED number is 1).

This is a repeatable and therefore is fairly likely to be the one players get as one of their first one or 2 experiences. Being knocked out by the bad guy criting on a 13 or so or dying to a crit when you roll a 5 or so is NOT fun.

As an aside, the level scaling for 1st level PCs is EXCELLENT. A very, very hearty "well done" for whoever thought that up. It really, really, really helps. A LOT.

[RealAlchemy]

On the repeatables made before ther change, the GM will need to choose which enemy set to use carefully. Some fights in the 16-18 range are worse than others for a bunch of low level characters playing up because of a 7 player table.

[Ascalaphus]

I agree with paulthahome. The change needs to be done retroactively.

Scenarios like Absalom Initiation are marketed as "your first stop" getting into PFS. We cannot afford to leave them littered with newbie traps, like
- "Oh, you didn't know you aren't supposed to play this scenario with more than 4 people?"
- "Yeah, it has random die roll tables to select things with, but actually you should very carefully choose a specific result or you risk burning new players".

[andreww]

Yep, we played Absalom Initiation last night and faced two different level 5 enemies with most of us level 1 or 2. It was one of the most aggravating experiences I have had in PF2. We were very lucky that our chamion crit saved against the ridiculous haunt encounter.

We were fortunate that wwe lost a player before the last encounter and so dropped down to low tier for the ritual.

[MadScientistWorking]

So which haunt? I can make a pretty decent case that the one your thinking of isn't it and that one doesn't change between tiers.

[Pirate Rob]

Don't forget the level bump for level 1 characters playing high tier, that bonus reduces the chances of instant death immensely.

[pauljathome]

Robert Hetherington wrote:

Don't forget the level bump for level 1 characters playing high tier, that bonus reduces the chances of instant death immensely.

I'm not sure that +1 (+2 if somebody slots the right mentor boon) counts as "immensely" :-).

That said, the level bump is absolutely wonderful. It makes the current situation far, far better. Still really, really bad but far, far better :-)

[Pirate Rob]

The 10hp on the other hand largely prevents instant death from accidental massive damage.