Does an agile amulet allow 1.5X dex on dmg on bite attack?


Rules Questions


Hello all,

Pretty much the title.

Since agile switches str for dex for purposes of damage, that had me wonder.

The PC is a fox shaped kitsune, and has but the single bite attack. When i look at creatures that apply Str x1.5 on their single natural attack, does that also apply through use of an agile amulet?

Thanks in advance.

Liberty's Edge

Given that the Agile weapon enhancement was intended for one-handed weapons (+Str -> +Dex) AND specifically states that the damage modifier is not increased for two-handed weapons (+1.5 * Str -> +Dex)... I'd conclude that it wouldn't be increased for primary natural weapon attacks either.


You could make an argument either way, but CBD makes a point that the RAI leans no.


Agile wrote:

Agile

Price +1 bonus; Slot none; CL 7th; Weight —; Aura moderate transmutation

DESCRIPTION

Requirement: This special ability can be placed only on melee weapons usable with Weapon Finesse.

Agile weapons are unusually well balanced and responsive. A wielder with the Weapon Finesse feat can choose to apply her Dexterity modifier to damage rolls with an agile weapon in place of her Strength modifier. This modifier to damage is not increased for two-handed weapons, but is still reduced for off-hand weapons.

CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

Cost +1 bonus; Feats Craft Magic Arms and Armor; Spells cat’s grace

Weapon Finesse wrote:

Weapon Finesse (Combat)

You are trained in using your agility in melee combat, as opposed to brute strength.

Benefit: With a light weapon, elven curve blade, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls.

Special: Natural weapons are considered light weapons.

Natural Weapons are considered light weapons, and light weapons can be used with Weapon Finesse. Check.

Is it a two handed weapon? No.

Therefore, yes, RAW, a natural weapon that deals 1.5x Str would deal 1.5x Dex.

RAI, I don't think it was intended to be this way.

This is a grey area that is honestly up to your GM. Personally, I wouldn't allow it, unless you can find a rule that specifically says natural attacks or bite attacks are supposed to deal 1.5x dex damage.

Of note, the only FAQ I could find that clarifies that anyone gets 1.5x dex damage to anything is the Unchained Rogue using a 2handed weapon.


that faq is actuly right on the money :
"..However, any other effects that would increase the multiplier to your Strength bonus on damage rolls (such as the two-handed fighter archetype's overhand chop) do not affect your Dexterity bonus on damage rolls."

the 1.5 str to damage on natural weapon (ether being the only natural weapon or from abilities such as the strong bite etc) goes into that category of other effects that increase the str multiplier and as such unless stated to do so for dex should not be converted along with dex to damage.


General rules are not effects.


the general rule is str per natural weapon. specific effect of only having one natural weapon is getting the str multiply by 1.5. id call that the effect of having only one natural weapon.

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