CBDunkerson
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It wouldn't work for any two-handed polearm, and you can't select quarterstaff since it isn't a slashing weapon.
Quarterstaff Master allows a quarterstaff to be wielded as a one-handed weapon.
Spear Dancing Spiral allows any ability that works with a quarterstaff to also be used with any spear or polearm.
Ergo, Quarterstaff Master + Spear Dancing Spiral allow any polearm to be used as a one-handed weapon. At which point, slashing polearms qualify for Slashing Grace.
| willuwontu |
willuwontu wrote:It wouldn't work for any two-handed polearm, and you can't select quarterstaff since it isn't a slashing weapon.Quarterstaff Master allows a quarterstaff to be wielded as a one-handed weapon.
Spear Dancing Spiral allows any ability that works with a quarterstaff to also be used with any spear or polearm.
Ergo, Quarterstaff Master + Spear Dancing Spiral allow any polearm to be used as a one-handed weapon. At which point, slashing polearms qualify for Slashing Grace.
You can wield them as a one-handed weapon, they still don't count as one for selecting types of one-handed weapons with feats.
Similarly, you can't enchant a quarterstaff with vorpal, even if you have weapon versatility and thus can wield it as a slashing weapon.
| RAWmonger |
Before we too far into this and realize why they banned this feat in PFS, it’s a huge language/semantics battle on whether Slashing Grace + Bladed Brush actually does work. People get hung up on the “or any time another hand is otherwise occupied.”
Personally I think it works, because the manner in which your hand “is otherwise occupied” is by attacking with your Glaive, which Bladed Brush says you count as not doing for any feats and class abilities that require it... can’t really think of other useful feats that revolve around weapon finesse and not attacking with your off hand... think it’s pretty obvious it was designed to work with Slashing Grace
CBDunkerson
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You can wield them as a one-handed weapon, they still don't count as one for selecting types of one-handed weapons with feats.
This doesn't match my understanding of the intent of the relevant rules and FAQs.
Rather, if you can treat it as a one-handed weapon that means you can use it with feats which only work with a one-handed weapon.
Similarly, you can't enchant a quarterstaff with vorpal, even if you have weapon versatility and thus can wield it as a slashing weapon.
This is a different (i.e. not particularly 'similar') issue. No, the physical nature of the item does not change. However, the way you are using it does.
Bladed brush doesn't work with slashing grace.
Bladed Brush specifically allows you to treat a glaive as a one-handed slashing weapon for purposes of all feats requiring such. 'Slashing Grace' is a 'feat that requires a one-handed slashing weapon'. Ergo, yes... they DO work together.
| willuwontu |
This doesn't match my understanding of the intent of the relevant rules and FAQs.
Rather, if you can treat it as a one-handed weapon that means you can use it with feats which only work with a one-handed weapon.
This FAQ is far more relevant for your argument. Yes, it allows you to treat is as a one-handed weapon for how feats affect it, it does not change it for the purpose of selecting them.
This is a different (i.e. not particularly 'similar') issue. No, the physical nature of the item does not change. However, the way you are using it does.
And being in a style changes the nature of the item? It seems to me like it only changes the way it's being used here. But sure let's roll with this then. So does quarterstaff master and weapon versatility then make a quarterstaff count as a slashing weapon for slashing grace? How about MoMS, quarterstaff master, ascetic style and tiger style?
Bladed Brush specifically allows you to treat a glaive as a one-handed slashing weapon for purposes of all feats requiring such. 'Slashing Grace' is a 'feat that requires a one-handed slashing weapon'. Ergo, yes... they DO work together.
It also requires that your hand be free. Bladed brush still makes you wield it in two hands, ergo your hand is not free and slashing grace does not apply.
| VoodistMonk |
There is absolutely no reason to punish the players for Paizo's inability to write their intentions in proper English.
Paizo has proven time and time again that they are fully incapable of maintaining the slightest semblance of consistency in the wording of their feats, and their stupid $#!+ should not roll downhill to the players at the table. They really double down on their inability to add structure to the way feats and rules are written by saying we shouldn't nitpick the wording apart, then they nitpick the wording to answer our FAQ's... it's a bunch of do as I say, not as I do nonsense.
Bladed Brush obviously works with Slashing Grace, it even has *some of* the relevant wording to make it exactly as obvious as it is and should be.
Why would it work with class abilities that have the same mechanical requirements as Slashing Grace, but not with the feat itself? It is literally just asinine to draw a line that isn't there.
I know that Bladed Brush is not the topic of this post, but it's exactly this type of nitpick BS that ruins the game for people. It's a fantasy game, you are supposed to encourage creativity, not stifle it.
CBDunkerson
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This FAQ is far more relevant for your argument.
Not really. That one is specific to strength bonuses. The one I linked includes strength bonuses, but also specifically says that all feats, class abilities, and other rules/effects based on use change with the number of hands you are using. It also makes the distinction between factors based on use and those based on the nature of the item.
And being in a style changes the nature of the item? It seems to me like it only changes the way it's being used here.
...and the text you are ostensibly 'replying' to; "No, the physical nature of the item does not change. However, the way you are using it does."
You are 'disagreeing' with me while saying the same things.
It also requires that your hand be free. Bladed brush still makes you wield it in two hands, ergo your hand is not free and slashing grace does not apply.
No, Bladed Brush does NOT require you to wield the glaive in two hands. The text specifically says you treat it as a one-handed weapon; "When wielding a glaive, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon..."
One handed weapons are generally wielded... in one hand. You CAN wield a one-handed weapon in two hands if you choose to, but it is not 'required'.
| willuwontu |
Not really. That one is specific to strength bonuses. The one I linked includes strength bonuses, but also specifically says that all feats, class abilities, and other rules/effects based on use change with the number of hands you are using. It also makes the distinction between factors based on use and those based on the nature of the item.
I'd consider feats, class abilities, and other things to fall under the and so on, but this is a moot point, as we both agree that when wielded as a one-handed weapon it counts as a one-handed weapon for how things affect it. It's when selecting things that we disagree on, which is covered better in the next section.
...and the text you are ostensibly 'replying' to; "No, the physical nature of the item does not change. However, the way you are using it does."
You are 'disagreeing' with me while saying the same things.
And you avoided my questions, I'll reiterate them.
Does quarterstaff master and weapon versatility make a quarterstaff count as a slashing weapon for slashing grace? (IMO, no)
How about MoMS, quarterstaff master, ascetic style and tiger style, do they qualify a quarterstaff for slashing grace? (Also no, IMO)
No, Bladed Brush does NOT require you to wield the glaive in two hands. The text specifically says you treat it as a one-handed weapon; "When wielding a glaive, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon..."
One handed weapons are generally wielded... in one hand. You CAN wield a one-handed weapon in two hands if you choose to, but it is not 'required'.
When wielding a glaive, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon and as if you were not making attacks with your off-hand for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s or swashbuckler’s precise strike).
You don't treat it as a one-handed weapon until you are wielding it (which requires two hands), this is further reinforced by the fact that your off-hand is considered to not be making attacks. Or are you saying that someone can twf while using the Precise Strike of a duelist with bladed brush and a glaive held in one hand?
CBDunkerson
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Does quarterstaff master and weapon versatility make a quarterstaff count as a slashing weapon for slashing grace? (IMO, no)
It isn't entirely clear how Weapon Versatility allows a (for example) bludgeoning weapon to do slashing damage. As written, it is just a matter of shifting your grip... which makes more sense for doing bludgeoning damage with a slashing weapon than vice versa. However, that's a logical flaw of Weapon Versatility rather than anything else. If we accept that there is some way to hold a quarterstaff which allows you to slice people up with it (maybe there is a bent nail sticking out on one end) then yes... you are wielding it as a slashing weapon so it works with feats that require a slashing weapon.
How about MoMS, quarterstaff master, ascetic style and tiger style, do they qualify a quarterstaff for slashing grace? (Also no, IMO)
As above. If you are just changing the way you wield the weapon / perform the action then you can combine it with other actions requiring the resultant weapon type.
You don't treat it as a one-handed weapon until you are wielding it (which requires two hands),
Again, one-handed weapons do not require two hands to wield. Bladed Brush allows you to treat a glaive as a one-handed weapon. Ergo, you can wield it in one hand.
You're just 'making up' the two handed requirement, in direct contradiction of the text.
this is further reinforced by the fact that your off-hand is considered to not be making attacks.
A specific requirement for Slashing Grace. In short, they're going out of their way to make clear that it works with things like Slashing Grace... so you somehow conclude that it doesn't.
Or are you saying that someone can twf while using the Precise Strike of a duelist with bladed brush and a glaive held in one hand?
Again, the text goes out of its way to say that you can use Bladed Brush with Precise Strike... because you are using the glaive as a one-handed weapon and your other hand is free. If you put an ADDITIONAL weapon in your other hand, or wield the glaive two handed, then it doesn't work with Precise Strike.
| Volkard Abendroth |
You can wield them as a one-handed weapon, they still don't count as one for selecting types of one-handed weapons with feats.
Please provide the RAW that supports your position.
To that character, his chosen weapon is one-handed. To that character, his weapon is also a finesse weapon.
An example of how this works can be seen with the bastard sword, for which it is considered as either a one-handed weapon or a two-handed weapon based entirely upon how it is being wielded at any given point in time.
For class abilities, feats, and other rule elements that vary based on or specifically depend on wielding a one-handed weapon, a two-handed weapon, or a one-handed weapon with two hands, the bastard sword counts as however many hands you are using to wield it.
For example, if you are wielding it one-handed (which normally requires the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat), it is treated as a one-handed weapon; Power Attack only gets the one-handed bonus, you cannot use Pushing Assault or Shield of Swings (which require a two-handed weapon), and so on.
If you are wielding it with two hands (whether or not you have the Exotic Weapon Proficiency to wield it with one hand), it is treated as a two-handed weapon; Power Attack gets the increased damage bonus, you can use Pushing Assault or Shield of Swings (which require a two-handed weapon), and so on.
The FAQ continues with more general language that would apply the above to any weapon and any effect.
An unusual case of the handedness rule is an ability that allows you to treat a two-handed weapon as a one-handed weapon. For example, the titan mauler's jotungrip (which allows you to wield a two-handed weapon with one hand) allows you to wield a bastard sword in one hand even without the Exotic Weapon Proficiency, and (as the ability states) treats it as a one-handed weapon, therefore it is treated as a one-handed weapon for other effects.