My 5th level Cleric needs a little tweaking

[JDawg75]

My group is playing Carrion Hill in a few weeks, which is a 5th level adventure. I've never played it, but I'm guessing there will definitely be undead and probably some outsiders at some point. We have a 25-pt build. I've put together the following build:

Human
Cleric5
Deity: Sarenrae Domains: Glory, Sun

Initiative: +0
Speed: Walk 20 ft.
AC: 20 (touch 10, flatfooted 20)
+1 Scimitar, +1 Heavy Wooden Shield +1, Holy Water, Morningstar

Special Attacks:
Channel Positive Energy, Sun's Blessing
Special Qualities: Touch of Glory
Fortitude: +8, Reflex: +2, Will: +9
STR 14, DEX 10, CON 14, INT 12, WIS 18, CHA 14 (+2)

Traits: Cleansing Light, Resilient, Sacred Conduit (drawback, Family Ties)
Feats: Alignment Channel (Evil), Channel Smite, Saving Shield, Selective Channeling

Possessions: +1 Scimitar; +1 Heavy Wooden Shield; +1 Agile Breastplate (Defiant (Undead)); Cloak of Resistance +1; Scroll of Hide from Undead; Holy Water; Pearl of Power (1st)

Overall I'm pretty happy with him. His saves are good for his level, his AC is effectively 22 (and DR 2) against the undead, which is good also. The DC of my channel energy against undead is 17, the DC of my level 3 spells is 17 also. I'd like to edge both of those toward 18, if anyone has ideas. I know a headband would do it, but I'm not willing to return 4k of gold to buy it. With starting gold of 10,500 at lvl 5 I have about 336 left. Any good way to get my move to 30 would be great, but it's not the highest priority.

I took what feats seemed reasonable. I debated over Divine Protection, but I'm not sure it's any better than the feats I have.

Any thoughts are welcome, especially about his DC's or feat selection . I'm generally wanting a support build, but I also want to have my channel energy be effective, and be tough enough to last in a fight.

[Meirril]

I'm not enamored of Channel Smite. Anytime someone with positive channeling would want to use it, you might as well channel to do damage instead. Unless your party takes damage from positive energy? If you want to hurt something that the Channel Smite would work on, why take the chance of missing and doing no damage this round so you can get an extra d8+2 in damage?

Take Extra Channel instead. If you want your channels to be more effective, have more channels.

[MrCharisma]

Here are my initial thoughts:(note that I haven't played this module)

Your enemies will mostly be undead/evil outsiders, so you probably don't need selective Channel. Given that you're investing in channel (domains, feats, traits) you could replace it with Extra Channel.

Also while the DCs of your spells is good, it depends what spells you're likely to cast. If you're going offensive then I'd definitsly keep it high (18 is ideal, but 17 isn't bad). If you'l mostly be using buffing spells you could actually drop your WIS to 16 and still have the same number of bonus spells etc, and have 5 extra points to spend (Again though, if you want toncast a lot of offensive spells keep the WIS high).

That's all I got for now.

[Firebug]

If you are planning on Channeling (to heal) during combat, I strongly suggest Purifying Channel over Channel Smite. It won't let you stack up melee and channel damage onto an undead creature, but its basically free damage(though resisted by fire resist) whenever you heal. You will need to rearrange your stats a little for the 15 Cha though.

[Slim Jim]

Agree with Meirril, and I'm not enamored of channeling at all, save as emergency rations to stabilize the fallen when you can't reach them because you're busy at the moment.

~ ~ ~

With 25pts, you can make a great reach-cleric. Cast on your turn, and AoO stick 'em on theirs.

[Meirril]

I personally like Channel. If you are in melee combat, channel is a way to provide healing without offering an AoO. It also lets you heal an entire party with one ability. If you are facing an encounter that damages everybody healing the entire party a little is often more important than healing one person a lot.

And when you can use your channel to harm creatures, its very good for a cleric that wants to do damage. Don't bother using a channel vs a few things, save your channels for when you can hit lots of creatures, or things that you can't harm otherwise. Like haunts and insubstantial undead.

Though generally speaking, I prefer to let damaged focus characters do the damage and save channel for healing. I also like getting the headband slot item that boosts your channel healing. You really don't get enough channels as a cleric to just waste them. Then again, I also like building characters to do a lot of encounters in a single day. Burning through your daily abilities by using them as your default attack just seems wasteful.

[MrCharisma]

Yeah I like channeling. While it's usually just an extra pool of healing for the party, it becomes a great AoE vs undead. This character deals 5 extra damage to undead with channels, adds +3 to the DC of their channels, and undead don't add channel resistance to saves vs their channels. All up some of the level appropriate undead are essentially getting about -7 to their saves.

The other thing I was going to recommend is BLAZING CHANNEL, but it costs 2 feats so I wasn't sure you'd have room for it.

[Neriathale]

You’ve invested heavily in anti-undead stuff which will pay off against those enemies, but what are your strategies for other encounters?

I think you’ve made the classic cleric error of trying to be a caster and a front liner. Pick one of the two, and focus on that.

I would probably ditch channel smite for extra channels, and given the character is very channeling focussed, increase Cha to at least 16, probably by dropping Str and Con (your feats are focussed on being more caste-ish than combatant).

A mithral breastplate and longspear allows you to move around (to get to the most efficient position for channeling) and hit things from behind the party warrior. Be a skirmisher, not a sub-par tank.

But, all of this is personal preference, feel free to ignore it.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Can you change your race, and if so is Aasimar an options? Not only do they get a boost to both WIS and CHA, their favored class bonus is also very good in an undead heavy campaign. Adding half your level to the damage vs undead and evil outsiders on a channeling build is huge.

Change channel smite to improved channel for a +2 to the DC. Undead have good will saves and if you run into and templated caster undead they will have very good will saves.

[Quixote]

I'd consider dropping the shield and scimitar for a longspear. Switch Dex and Int, maybe even drop the latter to boost the former, if you can. Do you need 18 Wis, or is 17 okay?
Then Combat Reflexes, Extra Channel, Power Attack.
A masterwork longspear is probably fine; with the cash you save from the shield and scimitar, you can boost your cloak to a +2.

3 attacks at +5 (1d8+6) and AC19 is better than 1 attack at +7 (1d6+3) and AC22, I think. Plus better saves and not having to choose between attacking and casting.

[MrCharisma]

If you're dropping WIS to 17 you might as well drop it to 16. JDawg75 did mention that spell DCs were important, so I don't know that dropping WIS is on the table.

Hmmm... another option for changing feats - drop selective channel and take GUIDED HAND for +2 to hit. It only works with the scimitar (unless you switch deities).

A lot of this depends on how much "tweaking" you want to do.

[JDawg75]

Lots of good advice. I'm fine with trading out channel smite for extra channel. I'm also open to taking out selective channel. I didn't want to accidentally heal enemies, but when a lot of them will be undead I guess it doesn't matter. My thought is I'd be more of a general spell caster against living opponents, and get up closer in undead fights. If that's the case I wouldn't need selective channel as much.

I love the idea of Aasimar, it's just they have generally seemed cheesy to me. If we had less than a full party I'd probably do it for the extra edge.

The idea of a long spear seems like a good alternative as well. It would also entail a major rework of my character build and a significant loss of AC, which I'm not interested in. I don't have designs on being a tank, I wanted a high AC because survivability is really important. I know groups that were TPK'd playing this adventure.

As for spellcasting, I've decided I want to cast more supportively than offensively. It doesn't actually seem like there are many good offensive spells at my level anyway (searing light? burst of radiance?), so maybe I don't need my Wisdom so high after all. I can give myself a 16 in Wis and Cha and with improved channel my DC would be 20 and undead couldn't add channel resistance to their save.

So the final changes I'm making are swapping out two feats for extra channel and improved channel. I changed my shield to a darkwood shield, just to help with armor check penalties. Any advice on spell selection would be welcome.

[avr]

Burst of radiance is a good debuff, yes. Barbed chains and funereal weapon seem like they should be specific to a couple of deities but just aren't, and both have uses.

One of protection from evil/communal pfe/magic circle against evil should probably be on your prepared spells list.

Having a summon monster available can be useful even without feats.

Prayer is boring but effective.

Given you haven't got a relevant headband, owl's wisdom might help.

Keeping a spell slot free in case you need remove paralysis or ashen path or something else you haven't prepared is useful.

[Quixote]

Protection from Evil is a just ridiculously good first level spell. Divine Favor and Shield of Faith are solid, too.

Lesser Restoration and Divination are nice ones to have on the back burner.

If I may return to your weapon and armor choice for a moment, though. Survivability is extremely important, as you say. Especially for the character who is often the lifeline for several others.
But. A dead opponent can't bypass your AC, either. And not only will a longspear do more damage, but you'll be able to deal that damage without giving up casting/channeling.

[MrCharisma]

Yeah Burst of Radiance is an incredible spell.

5d4 damage AoE spell with no save, but doesn't damage your allies? Amazing!

AoE blindness for 1d4 rounds that still has an effect if the enemy saves? Incredible!

Both in one spell? Amazingly incredible!

(Note: you can blind your allies even if it doesn't deal damage to them)

On a more general note, remember that you can't cast or channel with both hands occupied, so keep your weapon sheathed until you're done casting and are ready to wade into combat. You can channel with your hands full by making your weapon/shield a Reliquary weapon/shield (+250gp).

While the Reach Cleric idea is a good one, it depends who else is in your party. Unless you're short on damage dealers, or have no front-liner I wouldn't worry. Sword and Shield will make you a tougher target, but one who deals less damage - effectively making you a lower priority target. This is good if you're buffing/supporting the party, as you'll have more freedom to run around helping where it's needed. If you're in the mood to take out big groups of enemies you're probably going to walk into the middle of them and channel-explode them.

[Neriathale]

If you are looking for good spells, then these are a few of the lower level ones I habitually take:

Lesser Angelic Aspect
Shield of Wings (check this one with you ref in case he is using strict PFS rulings on who can use it)
Grace
Ironskin, if you are planning to get into a fight
Moment of Greatness (if you have a bard in the party)

Stabilise. Sometimes it is better to leave an ally unconscious but stable rather than getting them back into the fight on single figure hit points.

Divine Favour. Best Cleric Combat Power Up. (OK, so strictly speaking Divine Power is better, but it’s fighting Freedom of Movement and Blessing of Fervour for the L4 slots).

[Firebug]

Neriathale wrote:

Lesser Angelic Aspect

Shield of Wings (check this one with you ref in case he is using strict PFS rulings on who can use it)
Grace
Ironskin, if you are planning to get into a fight
Moment of Greatness (if you have a bard in the party)

Stabilise. Sometimes it is better to leave an ally unconscious but stable rather than getting them back into the fight on single figure hit points.

Divine Favour. Best Cleric Combat Power Up. (OK, so strictly speaking Divine Power is better, but it’s fighting Freedom of Movement and Blessing of Fervour for the L4 slots).

Ironskin needs a (not legal for PFS) since you mentioned PFS rulings earlier.

Stabilize: Yeah, GMs I've played with are much more forgiving in overlooking the stabilized guy than the one that just popped conscious with 2 hp prone next to the hungry tiger.

Other spell notables: Liberating Command, Reinforce Armaments(if your GM is a sunderer), Align Weapon & Communal, Bone Fists, Defending Bone, Path of Glory and eventually Rags to Riches.

Bone Fists is an untyped bonus to Natural Armor so would stack with barkskin/amulet/etc. It also buffs the natural and unarmed strikers. And 1/CL targets at that.

Path of Glory is actually pretty good for out of combat party healing(similar to Infernal Healing, but not evil). Especially cast from spell slots and not a wand/potion/etc. At CL 5, you can heal yourself and 3 others (without spending additional actions) for 5 hp, so 20 hp total, and 4 more targets each round (albeit at 1 hp less each round for additional targets). Compared to Cure Moderate for an average of 13 to a single target. Not as good as a Channel Energy, but it also gives dim illumination while not being a light-keyword spell.

Rags to Riches is an odd duck, but effectively it adds +1 enhancement bonus(that stacks with existing bonus) to weapon and armor (and temp HP and Hardness), and gives 1/4 CL to skill checks that can use a skill kit to 1/4 CL weapons/armor/items.